P-14/p-17 **pic's up **

andygumpers

andygumpers

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Hello all, I am wondering is there any collectors of these rifles out there? I have started to collect then and am wondering if anyone else collects them ? I would like to find out info on them I have A R/E in A P14 and A Winchester in P-14 and P-17. Anyone have info on them maybe some pics? I am also thinking of refinishing the Winchester P-17 and making A target rifle out of it. Pic`s up this weekend also what is the price range for them I was thinking of the $325-$500 range does that sound right ?
 
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I have seen a few P14 selling in the $350 to $400 selling recently... I have one de-sporterized P14, and one under way soon :)

I also refinished another one for an acquaintance.

Lou
 
P-14 Collection?

Hi, ag:

I own a fullstock Winchester P14 which is good-looking and a good shooter. As I am sure you know, P14s were all made in the U.S. by either Remington, a Remington-owned factory called Eddystone, and Winchester. The time frame involved is very short: 1916-1917. Then the pattern was used for the U.S. Model of 1917 in 30-06. About 4 million of the .303 version were made. Winchesters are the "rarest", but not by much. $400 is a fair price. Bayos go for over $100, maybe $150. Ideally, of course, you would match a Win bayo to a Win rifle, but I don't think they matched bayo serials to receiver serials.

The most interesting part of P14 collecting might relate to the volley sights. All (most?) P14s were made with volley sights: a dial and pointer mechanism towards the left front of the stock and a peephole on an arm swinging up from the left side of the receiver. This was used for the interesting, but ultimately unworkable, idea of raining bullets down upon the enemy from 2000 yards.

After WWI ended, the P14s in Britain were put into storage but first (or at some point) they were sent to the arsenal for modification: removal of the volley sights. So, you will rarely see a P14 with sights intact, or sights available as parts to the collector market. An intact P14 (somehow kept by an original issuee) would be worth much more than the regular kind.

Then as WWII opened up, the P14s were brought out of storage for Home Guard use. There should be some markings of interest to collectors out of this phase. (The Home Guard also used Model of 1917s, necessitating a paint flash to distinguish the calibres. A rifle with stripes in red/white/red on the front stock and forestock is chambered in 30-06.)

A really serious collector would be looking for experimental versions of the P14 in .276 calibre - this was how the rifle was chambered by the Enfield people just prior to WWI. When the war broke out, they sent the designs to the U.S. and asked for .303 chambering to maintain ammunition standard with the Lee Enfields.

Anyways, you may know all of the above, but I enjoyed blabbing on about my favourite military rifle.

P.S. a snob would always call it a "Patt.14", because that is what is marked on the buttstock cartouche.
 
I am the proud owner of a Winchester P14 with volley sights.
It is in great condition, even the bore.
Make sure you check out the bore as they shot a lot of corrosive ammo, and didn't always have time to clean them properly.

I have a fantastic ERA with the volley sights. Unfortunately the bore is pitted.
I also have the PH sight for them.
 
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Seven, one M1917,w/ Parker Hale sight, one each Remington, Winchester, Eddystone with volley sights
One each Remington, Winchester, Eddystone,with Parker Hale target sights (volley sight bits stored in buttstock)

So to answer your question, YOU BETCHA Red Ryder! (you may not be old enough to remember that comic, LOL)
 
Thanks for the info I cleaned up my Eddystone Got rid off all the grease and gave the stock a quick buff. Its looking nice so far the Winchester P-17 is going to be a complete re-do I want to clean the stock up and re-perkisizing the medal. I also am looking for A Parker Pale rear sight. It has the bit for the volley sight on the stock but not the pointer for it. I will be in the market for A pointer soon. Any pics yet ? :p
 
The Pattern 17 (according to British & Canadians) or M1917 to the Americans, was origianlly blued, not parkerized. Was your parkerized?

The sight you will need is the Parker Hale 5B
PH5Brearsight.jpg
 
I only have one, a M1917 Remington from 1918 for my US martial arms collection, but its a good solid shooter.

Seems to like to pierce the primers every once in a while though......
 
Got a Win and a Rem 1917, 4 digit ERA P14 with PH sights. They are all great shooters, but the 1917's seem to be a bit ore accurate. I love the old black walnut stocks.
 
i have a p14 from great grandfather (god rest).
it is marked (ED) eddystone remmington, and also has the regimental markings of seaforth highlanders(my grandads old unit) it is marked as being made 1914.
the action and bore are exellent the original volley sights are intact, the 500-600yard marks are a little worn(his usual shooting range :rockOn:)) and the origianal stock was sported and then warped. we replaced it with a spare 1917 sport stock in walnut(includes teeth marks on butt):eek:


no amount of money would part me with it!
though how much is a original military stock to buy i would like to restore it some.
 
Since we have some knowledgeable people on here, I have a question re the Patt 14 and P17. Were they ever used in combat in WWI?


nasho said:
Hi, ag:

I own a fullstock Winchester P14 which is good-looking and a good shooter. As I am sure you know, P14s were all made in the U.S. by either Remington, a Remington-owned factory called Eddystone, and Winchester. The time frame involved is very short: 1916-1917. Then the pattern was used for the U.S. Model of 1917 in 30-06. About 4 million of the .303 version were made. Winchesters are the "rarest", but not by much. $400 is a fair price. Bayos go for over $100, maybe $150. Ideally, of course, you would match a Win bayo to a Win rifle, but I don't think they matched bayo serials to receiver serials.

The most interesting part of P14 collecting might relate to the volley sights. All (most?) P14s were made with volley sights: a dial and pointer mechanism towards the left front of the stock and a peephole on an arm swinging up from the left side of the receiver. This was used for the interesting, but ultimately unworkable, idea of raining bullets down upon the enemy from 2000 yards.

After WWI ended, the P14s in Britain were put into storage but first (or at some point) they were sent to the arsenal for modification: removal of the volley sights. So, you will rarely see a P14 with sights intact, or sights available as parts to the collector market. An intact P14 (somehow kept by an original issuee) would be worth much more than the regular kind.

Then as WWII opened up, the P14s were brought out of storage for Home Guard use. There should be some markings of interest to collectors out of this phase. (The Home Guard also used Model of 1917s, necessitating a paint flash to distinguish the calibres. A rifle with stripes in red/white/red on the front stock and forestock is chambered in 30-06.)

A really serious collector would be looking for experimental versions of the P14 in .276 calibre - this was how the rifle was chambered by the Enfield people just prior to WWI. When the war broke out, they sent the designs to the U.S. and asked for .303 chambering to maintain ammunition standard with the Lee Enfields.

Anyways, you may know all of the above, but I enjoyed blabbing on about my favourite military rifle.

P.S. a snob would always call it a "Patt.14", because that is what is marked on the buttstock cartouche.
Click to expand...
 
Andy- I hope you are joking about parkerizing your P17. No matter how worn the finish is on it, it is worth way more as is than it will ever be after you parkerize it.
Don't do it.


andygumpers said:
Thanks for the info I cleaned up my Eddystone Got rid off all the grease and gave the stock a quick buff. Its looking nice so far the Winchester P-17 is going to be a complete re-do I want to clean the stock up and re-perkisizing the medal. I also am looking for A Parker Pale rear sight. It has the bit for the volley sight on the stock but not the pointer for it. I will be in the market for A pointer soon. Any pics yet ? :p
Click to expand...
 
Cantom, The M1917 was the main battle rifle of the US in WWI, US Army had many more on issue than the M1903.
 
Regarding WWI combat use of the P14, the answer is yes, but not in a massive way. I have read that some WWI British sharpshooters preferred the P14 over the Lee Enfield. Some Canadians may have carried P14s. I would love to learn more details about this.
 
nasho said:
Regarding WWI combat use of the P14, the answer is yes, but not in a massive way. I have read that some WWI British sharpshooters preferred the P14 over the Lee Enfield. Some Canadians may have carried P14s. I would love to learn more details about this.
Click to expand...

All I seem to hear about is we had the Ross Rifles, they didn't work out, then we were rearmed with Lee Enfield rifles.
I never hear much about us using P14's.

They seem to the red haired stepchild of WWI rifles. I was wondering if anyone has anything to add about them?

BTW, I acknowledge that they are pretty accurate rifles, probably more accurate than our LE No 1 Mk III's.
 
nasho said:
Regarding WWI combat use of the P14, the answer is yes, but not in a massive way. I have read that some WWI British sharpshooters preferred the P14 over the Lee Enfield. Some Canadians may have carried P14s. I would love to learn more details about this.
Click to expand...

To the OP: get a copy of Skennerton's book "The U.S. Enfield". The best source I'm aware of on both the P14 and M17.

I have seen a photo of Canadian snipers with P14s in Mons in 1918. The P14 was in France by mid to late 1916.

I would leave the wood and metal alone on any rifle that has not had the barrel cut or receiver sportererized, ie: backsight block ground off, drilled & tapped etc.

Excellent rifles with a lot of history.
 
green said:
Cantom, The M1917 was the main battle rifle of the US in WWI, US Army had many more on issue than the M1903.
Click to expand...

The Legend of Sgt York, well he was armed with a M1917 and not the 1903....

1903's were in very short supply, that's why the US made the M1917. They were issued something like 4 to 1.

FYI

Alvin Cullum York (December 13, 1887 – September 2, 1964) was a United States soldier, famous as a World War I hero. He was awarded the Medal of Honor for leading an attack on a German machine gun nest, taking 32 machine guns, killing 28 German soldiers and capturing 132 others. This action took place during the U.S.-led portion of the Meuse-Argonne Offensive in France, which was part of a broader Allied offensive masterminded by Marshall Ferdinand Foch to breach the Hindenburg line and ultimately force the opposing German forces to capitulate.
 
cantom said:
All I seem to hear about is we had the Ross Rifles, they didn't work out, then we were rearmed with Lee Enfield rifles.
I never hear much about us using P14's.

They seem to the red haired stepchild of WWI rifles. I was wondering if anyone has anything to add about them?

BTW, I acknowledge that they are pretty accurate rifles, probably more accurate than our LE No 1 Mk III's.
Click to expand...

I have read the Pattern 14's were recalled to rear lines becasue they were over heating? or something BS like that.

I have had good accurace with the P-14's as long as they were in VG++ shape.
 
A Winchester P 17

andygumpers said:
I am also thinking of refinishing the Winchester P-17 and making A target rifle out of it. Pic`s up this weekend also what is the price range for them I was thinking of the $325-$500 range does that sound right ?
Click to expand...

I've PM Andy with my experience 50 years ago in taking a bubbaed P17 and turning it into the most accurate full bore rifle I ever owned, saddly. no longer in my possession.:(
 
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