P14 and M1917 parts

[Potashminer]

So, this is likely 50 years too late - not real sure how many people play with those WWI rifles any more - was a thing at one time to buy them very cheap - circa 1950 or so - then cut them down to use as hunting rifles.

I am doing that backwards - trying to re-construct a few to be the way they would have left their factory - so my version of "all matching" means every one of the 80 some parts in each rifle has the correct marks on them - is not just about the serial numbers - and is more than whether the gun "works" or whether the parts "fit" - is my intention that they also be marked correctly. Screws, pins and coil springs were not marked. Each rifle had north of 80 parts, when original.

Over the years, I have bought some of those rifles - stripped them for parts. Sometimes I have bought part "lots" - bags or boxes with loose parts. Sometimes people are cleaning out basement and drop off a box or bag of old "gun stuff", in case I can use it.

A fellow recently contacted me for some M1917 parts - was boxes of stuff to go through - decided I needed some sort of plan to sort them out. I have a book here by Charles Stratton - is a table to show that British had a name for a part, and then, in some cases, the Americans had a different name for the same part. Can go to m1903.com and see list which sometimes uses another name. And Numrich website often has a fourth name - all for the same piece. And, both P14 and M1917 were made at three different owned USA factories - so each rifle was made by Eddystone, Remington or Winchester - parts often did not initially interchange very well, although they worked on that during WWI. Both those rifles (P14 and M1917) only made during WWI - none made before (perhaps there was 100 x P14 made at Enfield Armoury in Britain at some point), and none were made after the war (although some M1917 may have been assembled from earlier made parts, and Remington used many of those parts to make their Model 30 - at least initially).

So the "plan" that I settled on - might be useful to others, or someone else might have a better idea. So, look at a part - is marked as made by "E", "R" or "W" or sometimes no maker mark at all - is known that some got missed for marking for days or weeks during WWI. So that is four "categories".

Then look more at the part - if there is an American Eagle Head stamp, that MUST be a M1917 part - American military did not inspect the P14's that were made for Britain. British Inspectors did not appear to "mark" the part in any way. If it does not have an Eagle Head, it might be a M1917 part that got missed for stamping, or it might be a P14 part - so, I was calling those "Either". Some P14 parts are physically different than M1917 parts - like the bolt stop box, or the bolt stop spring rest - but many are identical - sear, trigger. So the shape might tell me that it must be P14.

So I ended up with 12 large freezer bags - four categories - "E", "R", "W" or "Not Marked" - then, for each of those four, I get three options - must be M1917, must be P14, or "Either".

So, I went through the pile and sorted the parts into those 12 bags - now, if I want a P14 part - is only three bags to look in, instead of the whole pile. If I want a "W" made P14 part, is only one bag to look in. If I want "a" P14 part and do not care who made it, I can start in the "Either" bags - unless it is a part that I know is different from that same part in M1917 - then there are the 4 x P14 bags to look in.

So, sort of like "old days" filing system - got a handful of loose things - where do they each go? I want a specific thing - where would I look for it?

 

[Snider shooter]

Part of the fun is sorting everything and putting it away in some sort of organization. I ended up buying planno tackle boxes for my Lee Enfield parts. So everything is in its own compartment. Only problem is I keep picking up parts to other rifles. Ziplock bags are also in use. Martini parts are soon getting their own box, starting to add up. If your going to rebuild milsurps you need a parts source. When I want to build a rifle I usually transfer those parts to another box so it’s easier to keep of what I have and what’s missing. Currently missing a rear ring and front lower nose cap to rebuild another Long Branch. Nothing worse than knowing you have that one part you need to finish a build but where did I put it.

 

[mkrnel]

There were also a bunch of parts built by other company's to maintain both P14's and M1917's during WW2. Everything from Bolts to Stocks.

I had a P14 with a Scottish made WW2 replacement stock that did not have the volley sight cut-outs and I also still have a P14 converted into a Palma target rifle in 7.62mm NATO that has a WW2 made M1917 bolt with the factory stamp USMC. Apparently during WW2 the US government issued 4 different contracts just for more bolts!

USMC - United Shoe Machine Corp. replacement bolt manufactured during WWII

The WWI bolts for the most part were made of the same steel as the receiver at the factory and because of this, tend to gall a bit in the bolt races, which is a common problem. The WWII bolts were made of a different steel and eliminate this problem, thereby saving the receiver wearing by preventing galling issues. So a WWII replacement bolt can be preferred over an original for a rifle the owner shoots or will shoot and was often the case were also different bolts from different makers were swapped to give a smoother bolt operation as the factories often used slightly different steel formula's from different suppliers and often different levels of hardening.

And the predecessor to the P14 was the P13 that was in development after the Boar war and finalised as a design pre WW1 in 7mm as the Pattern 13 in 1913.