Pair of Flint Pistols -- your help needed

[jpc]

Hello:

I just got these pistols and the seller was of the opinion they were Dueling Pistols. I think they might be a 'pair of pistols'

Barrels are brass and 8" long
Muzzle is .625
Silver is hall marked
Lock looks to be marked J all with a circle around the 'all'
Any information is appreciated

take care

jpc

 

[sunray]

"...might be a 'pair of pistols'..." Suspect you're right. Dueling pistols usually have sights.

 

[tiriaq]

Great find! Barrel mark RW is Wilson. Richard, IIRC. They are not duelling pistols. Be VERY cautious about any repairs or restoration.

 

[jpc]

Great information--looks like they are "Richard Wilson’s silver mounted holster pistols"

take care

jpc

 

[jpc]

Hi:

Anyone point me to the British Proof Mark site that will help me do some dating in the future.

Thanks again and take care

jpc

 

[Musketfire]

Hi:

Anyone point me to the British Proof Mark site that will help me do some dating in the future.

Thanks again and take care

jpc

Hello Sir!

Beautiful pistols there, Quite a investment I imagine.

Go to - http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/forums/4/t/British-Flint-and-Percussion-Arms.html---- There are some gentlemen there that will not only know when they were proofed but they will -im certain - know -or at least have a educated speculation- who made them, mybe a record of the contract...you never know, examples of matching pairs in such great condion are really something special.

Again, beautiful pistols!!

 

[buffdog]

Dueling Pistols

Early dueling pistols did NOT have sights. Sights were an addition to dueling pistols about the beginning of the 19th Century (1800+).

A quote here:

The golden era of the dueling pistol in Britain lasted from around 1770 to 1850. By 1780 it was stated that "pistols are the weapons now generally made use of." Robert Wogdon was the most celebrated of the manufacturers of flintlock dueling pistols, whose object was to make a nicely balanced, fine handling, accurate and often intentionally beautiful pistol. Wogdon began working as a gunmaker in London in 1765 and opened a shop in the fashionable Haymarket at the end of 1774. Atkinson estimates the number of lives claimed by Wogdon pistols in the "many hundreds," earning Wogdon the sobriquet of the "patron of that leaden death."


It might be interesting to see if the "RW" mark on these pistols is that of Robert Wogdon, a London maker of dueling pistols.

In 2005, Cowan's Auctions sold a 1777 Coach Pistol with the same proof markings as on these pistols. This is a different style pistol, but the same proof marks (London, second proof) are on this dated pistol.

It would appear that you have made quite a find. It would really add to the authenticity and value of this fine pair of pistols if you could attribute them to a name or family. Pistols like these would not have been for the "ordinary" folks, but more for the Military Officer or Upper Class citizens of the era.


Source: Cowan's Auctions Inc.

blunderbuss style, 15.5” long with brass barrel marked London in script having two oval proof marks, crown over interlocking GP and crown over V.


London Proof House address:
The Proof Master,
The Proof House,
48 Commercial Road,
London.
E1 1LP
Telephone: +44 207 481 2695

.

.

 

[jpc]

Hall Marks date them as 1770 London

Thanks for your help and lead

jpc

 

[griaguns]

I have seen a logo similar to the one on the butts (sort of a smiling tiger) and am looking all over the place to find it.
Siam (Thailand) was under British Rule from the early 1800s but was occupying other areas of Asia (Malaya etc) way before that.
The logo on the butt looks like a smiling tiger (Siam) with the British proofs/script it may track back to British early endeavors with Asia
Just another spin to add to the mystery.
Graham

 

[buffdog]

Other Hall Marks

Hall Marks date them as 1770 London

Thanks for your help and lead

jpc

When you say "Hall Marks" are you referring to ones visible on the pistol? In those days, if the metal on the grip bottoms was made by a silversmith, there may be markings on them too, but you might have to take them off to look inside for them.

 

[jpc]

The Hall Marks I am talking about are on the silver Trigger guard extension. I found a lion with a crown, a lion and a fancy P that all match London 1770 British Silver. There is an IR marking that I have not figured out yet.

take care

 

[smellie]

Hallmarks are markings designated by the Silversmiths. They were obligatory and showed who made the silverware, what year it was made and, most importantly, attested that the tax was paid. They also attest to the purity of the silver.

Interesting that these babies have brass barrels; that generally was used for sea-service pistols, but not Government ones. These are commercial but may have done a lot of travelling.

The butt cap casting is what was called a "grotesque mask" and was quite common on better-grade pistols. It has nothing to do with the famous "Smiling Tiger" on the Siamese Lee-Enfields (although we can always wish).

Nice pieces, only several thousand percent outside of my budget..... but very nice.

Congratulatons! Now, go buy a lottery ticket while you're still hot!
.

 

[jpc]

Congratulatons! Now, go buy a lottery ticket while you're still hot!


I will split the ticket with you, but got to warn you I am not a lucky guy!!

 

[jpc]

Early dueling pistols did NOT have sights. Sights were an addition to dueling pistols about the beginning of the 19th Century (1800+).

A quote here:

The golden era of the dueling pistol in Britain lasted from around 1770 to 1850. By 1780 it was stated that "pistols are the weapons now generally made use of." Robert Wogdon was the most celebrated of the manufacturers of flintlock dueling pistols, whose object was to make a nicely balanced, fine handling, accurate and often intentionally beautiful pistol. Wogdon began working as a gunmaker in London in 1765 and opened a shop in the fashionable Haymarket at the end of 1774. Atkinson estimates the number of lives claimed by Wogdon pistols in the "many hundreds," earning Wogdon the sobriquet of the "patron of that leaden death."


It might be interesting to see if the "RW" mark on these pistols is that of Robert Wogdon, a London maker of dueling pistols.

In 2005, Cowan's Auctions sold a 1777 Coach Pistol with the same proof markings as on these pistols. This is a different style pistol, but the same proof marks (London, second proof) are on this dated pistol.

It would appear that you have made quite a find. It would really add to the authenticity and value of this fine pair of pistols if you could attribute them to a name or family. Pistols like these would not have been for the "ordinary" folks, but more for the Military Officer or Upper Class citizens of the era.


Source: Cowan's Auctions Inc.

blunderbuss style, 15.5” long with brass barrel marked London in script having two oval proof marks, crown over interlocking GP and crown over V.


London Proof House address:
The Proof Master,
The Proof House,
48 Commercial Road,
London.
E1 1LP
Telephone: +44 207 481 2695

.

.

Hello:

As near as I can see the lock is marked Hall or Hull

thanks and take care

jpc