PAL required to buy ammo?

Painkillers said:
Is it law though?

I don't know about you guys, but I'm about done with bending over and if the retailer isn't required to have the number, I'm inclined to let the ammo collect dust on their shelves until they smarten the F up.
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For years in Saskatchewan, my wife, who does NOT have a PAL (nor did she have the previous FAC, although she did take the Saskatchewan Hunter Safety Course to be able to buy hunting license) would be able to pick up ammo for me when she was in the city. That stopped perhaps a couple decades ago - no PAL to show, could not buy ammo. I do recall filling out an "Explosives Canada"(?) form one time at a gun store in Regina, Sask when I bought powder or primers? Then, many times I have bought same stuff in stores in Brandon, Manitoba and only had to show my PAL - no forms or paperwork or "verifying" that I recall - but was several years ago. This past summer, I picked up .22 Long Rifle, 17 HMR ammo and a flat of 12 gauge at the Canadian Tire store in Yorkton, Sask. - so was three separate times - the guy at the gun counter (who had to open the glass doors to get what I wanted) and the lady at customer service just looked at my PAL - I paid and left. I live about an hour's drive from Yorkton, Sask. - but in Manitoba.
 
Painkillers said:
UPDATE!!

I can verify that the Ontario Dealer has "checked" a PAL number and birth date that I had given them.

I purchased a fairly significant amount of centerfire, rifle ammo (1500rds) for range banging. At the time of filling the order, I gave all info aside from birth date and PAL#. As before, I thought the information none of their business.

The company reached out for the info via email, and I asked why they needed the info. No answer.

I then gave them a 6 digit number for the PAL, and a Feb. 29th date that there was no leap year.

They reached out stating the PAL# didn't look right as PAL#'s don't start with the digits I gave them.

I then gave them an 8 digit number with proper prefix, and a birth date of Feb. 29th in a leap year.

The company then responded that my PAL# that I gave them did not check out with my birth date and could I send the proper info...To which I asked them who has authorized them to access this information and told them they were over reaching.

Retailers in other provinces seem not to check, verify, or otherwise record PAL numbers on ammunition purchases, so can anyone tell me why Ontario retailers are? Or, perhaps more accurately, who is paying these Ontario retailers to collect, and I assume submit, this data?

Who authorized this?
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White haired guy named Bob Rae, leader of the NDP at the time. Ontario had a senior moment and elected him as premier. They called it Bob's bullet bill. He also introduced the outdoor card for hunting, rent control, flexi days for Gov't employees and the vehicle package you have to purchase when buying a used car. Funny, later he was intermittent leader for the Liberals too at one time. No similarities between the two parties at all. He said sarcastically.
 
Painkillers said:
UPDATE!!

I can verify that the Ontario Dealer has "checked" a PAL number and birth date that I had given them.
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Did they actually "VERIFY" IT ?

Did you get an email from RCMP about a new message in your account ?

Is there a reference # from the retailer on your account indicating a PAL check ?
 
FatCatsDad said:
Did they actually "VERIFY" IT ?

Did you get an email from RCMP about a new message in your account ?

Is there a reference # from the retailer on your account indicating a PAL check ?
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Likely the vendor was smart enuf to know that there were not enuf digits in the PAL, and that Feb 29 was a NULL date.

PS - In NB the BP just looks at PAL, the ammo is on Open Shelves. At CT the ammo is behind glass and walked to cashier by 'key person'. I don't get to touch it until I pay.
 
A retailer in Canada has to see a valid PAL to sell ammo. They don't have to verify it with the CFO. Anything beyond seeing a valid PAL is their policy and/practice. If you don't like their policies, shop elsewhere. Maybe the policies will change if it's driving away sales. Not worth a fight. And I don't think they care what corner of the planet you live on...other than to send you more flyers.

No one tracks you more than your cell phone!
 
Odinson said:
Only in Ontario, it is required under the Explosives Act, not under any firearm laws.
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The Ontario legislation is not under the Explosives Act but a separate piece of legislation introduced by Bob Rae in the 1990's. Technically, it doesn't require presentation of a PAL to buy ammo unless you are under 18. Any photo ID with your birth date will meet the requirements of the Ontario Ammunition Regulation Act.

https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/94a20

Restriction re purchase of ammunition
2. (1) No person shall purchase ammunition unless the person is at least 18 years old and at the time of purchase presents valid identification that has his or her photograph and age or date of birth or other valid identification prescribed by regulation. 1994, c. 20, s. 2 (1).

(2) Despite subsection (1), a person under 18 years old may purchase ammunition if he or she presents at the time of purchase the valid identification required under subsection (1) and a valid licence issued to him or her under subsection 8 (2) of the Firearms Act (Canada). 1994, c. 20, s. 2 (2); 2009, c. 33, Sched. 9, s. 1 (1).
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FatCatsDad said:
Did they actually "VERIFY" IT ?

Did you get an email from RCMP about a new message in your account ?

Is there a reference # from the retailer on your account indicating a PAL check ?
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When I worked at SAIL a few years ago in Ontario we did log every ammo purchase into a logbook. Never did Ir see this book looked at by any official ever. As far as I was aware it was for use as TP for the future.
 
FatCatsDad said:
Did they actually "VERIFY" IT ?

Did you get an email from RCMP about a new message in your account ?

Is there a reference # from the retailer on your account indicating a PAL check ?
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Yes they did.

I received no emails, or reference numbers from the horse cops, but I did receive emails from the retailer informing me that they checked my PAL, and the info that I'd sent does not correlate to an RPAL # registered to my name. They checked.

My point is why? Why are retailers, at least this one, verifying PAL #'s on ammo purchases if not for tracking purposes?
 
My last purchase at SAIL (Late Sept) no questions, not even request to see my PAL. My hunting buddy was with me and same for him. We looked at each other as we walked out and smiled.
 
In Ontario some retailers hand write your ammo purchase and PAL details in a notebook, some other write it down in their computer. I asked one of the retailers who wrote it in the computer for how long they keep the record of the purchase, he said "indefinitely".
 
^ ... and some don't bother. Maybe they did it for XX years with NO "Inspection" and gave up . . . or they ran short of TP (amber?)
I buy ammo in NB and NS and they DO look at the PAL but don't write anything down. This is at CT or BP or Cabelas or ECC in Halifax.
 
Thank Bob Rae and the NDP of Ontario

Ontario records the DL#, and ammo details under the explosives act, not firearms act.

Simply order your ammo from outside of Ontario to avoid this
 
FatCatsDad said:
Thank Bob Rae and the NDP of Ontario

Ontario records the DL#, and ammo details under the explosives act, not firearms act.

Simply order your ammo from outside of Ontario to avoid this
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...........and pay the exorbitant shipping fees so that you can remain anonymous?
 
Tenda, Solely, and Bullseye have various FREE shipping avail. However, they're all ON so PAL is recorded (dunno if anything is ever 'reported' to Feds).
 
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