Panther LR-308

BigDawg,
From the reading I did before hitting that purchase button. You know the one that has you excited on the one hand and reluctant to provide your Credit Card number on the other. Anyways,

Advantages of the the AR-10 (Armalite):
1) has a better off the shelf trigger (2 stage match) and
2) is also well made. The Armalite is Forged not extruded like the DPMS. While this is consdiered an advantage by some, I haven't heard of any problems with the DPMS with regard to it being extruded (it's very well made and heavy duty).
3)Fiberglass hand guard over aluminum. I actually like the aluminum though.
4) Offers a 1 moa group at 100 yards guarantee.

The disadvantages of the Armalite Vs the DPMS are
1) Price. $2751.00 for the AR-10 in Canada vs $1500 on sale for the DPMS.
2) The magazines, I've heard mixed reviews on them. DPMS ones are good now that they use the metal ones instead of the polymer which are interchangable with the original AR-10 design and the SR-25. This doesn't really matter that much to me as long as they work well.
3) Although the DPMS doesn't offer a 1 moa at 100 yard guarantee many have been reported to easily shoot sub 1 moa especially with the 168 grain match bullets.
The barrel twist rate on the DPMS is 1/10 while the Armalite is 1/11.5 .

Now for the DPMS add in a match trigger $140 for the RRA match or a few hundred for the more expensive ones and you're still a grand ahead.

Armalite does make a good rifle. However I understand that the DPMS is also a very good rifle. The price and reviews won me over. Especially the luck many have had with the accuracy.

If the Armalite had a 1/2 moa guarantee I would have bought it instead. At 1 moa I believe the DPMS will match it and for a lot less. The build quality on the DPMS appears to be excellent as is the Armalite from whatI've read (I've never tried an Armalite).
 
Last edited:
thanx for the great post epoxy its much appreciated i just can't stomach buying a 223 i love 7.62 nato this is hard choice for me but i think i'm gonna go with a ar-10 the dpms is right up there though very tough choice
 
It was a tough choice for me too.

For me the accuracy seemed pretty good in both, however most reviews had the DPMS as a bit more accurate with the right match amo.The build quality on both was very good. One thing though is that the Armalite uses M14 magazines. Don't know if that makes any difference to you or not.

The extra for the Armalite buys me a Leupold VXIII 6.5-20X 50mm Scope and a match trigger. In other words I can have a complete rifle ready to shoot for the same price as the Armalite. Ultimately thats was the tie breaker for me.

Plus I still have a number of other rifles that I have to buy scopes for.

Let us know when you make that purchase.

I'll try and get some pics up of the LR-308 after I borrow a digital camera. Might take a while.
 
are't they modded m-14 mags or can u just stick normal mags in there? pics would be great what kinda ammo are you planning on trying?
 
I'm not sure if they are modded or just regular M14 mags. I believe they are regular ones but I'm not positive.

Well I plan on breaking it in with 155 grain Winchester stuff for about 20 rounds (ie I already had a box of it) then I have two boxes of "fusion" brand 165 grain ammo (made by Federal) which I'm hoping will give me just below 1 moa at 100 yards. After that I'll be looking into some match grade stuff, probably the 168 grain Match Kings. Then I'll buy a few packs of other stuff, heavier match kings, a few other quality match grade ammo and see what it likes best. Eventually after that I'll start learning how to reload. I've been introduced to reloading once before. Right now I only know enough to be dangerous. I'll be getting out the books and asking a buddy of mine to help me out. Then I'll be on my way.

That's the plan. After the match trigger is installed, the tactical grip is on, rings come in and I can get enough money togethr to buy the scope. I'm looking at next spring before I get this rifle up and going.

I plan on having my Kimber SVT .22 going for this winter. That still requires the rings and a scope. So I have a few projects on the go and only so much money :( .
 
Deckard :slap:
I expected better from you :p .

That's $100 plus taxes and shipping that could go towards a Leupold.
In my job I've had the opportunity to look at a lot of firearms. The first thing I did from day one was check out the scopes. The lowest quality scope that goes on my rifles is a Burris. The glass is good and it's quality

Burris / Redfield ------ Decent but not perfect

Leupold------------- My particular scope of choice.

Zeiss/Swaroski ---- Too much money. Diminshing returns. Leupold is too close at far less money.

I'll wait until I can get the scope that I want. Buy it right and buy it once. I'm not in a huge hurry.
 
Last edited:
BBQ woa,

You can field strip them in about 2 seconds for cleaning (I learned in about 30 seconds while never having handled an AR before). The controls take 2 seconds to learn and feel natural. You can simply buy another upper to change calibers while keeping your expensive match grade trigger, and they don't require bedding or free floating. As an added bonus moisture, cold and heat doesn't affect the AR/M16 the way it would affect a bolt rifle with wood or even laminate.

For a personal range rifle that is very efficient. As for prone to jamming etc, any rifle that shoots accurately has tight tolerences and is more prone to that. I don't plan on dropping this thing in a swamp, filling it up with sand, or running around in a dust storm. I could care less about it as a battle rifle. Even then from what I've heard they are still good. As long as they are maintained.

Which firearm do you consider more efficient and more importantly why?
 
BBq_Woa! said:
ARs aren't efficient.
they're overly complex and prone to breakage and dirt-related performance problems..
Click to expand...


I'm sure this is speaking from your vast experience with them? Making a statement like that I'm sure you've fired thousands of rounds through an AR, carried one overseas, etc.
 
AR's do have some problems but if they have a good operator behind them they can perform alot better then much of the semi-auto's out there
 
I've personally owned/shot/rebuilt dozens of the OLD GENUINE ORIGINAL Dutch built AR 10 rifles. I can't remember any jams EVER with ball ammo .... as long as those old soft aluminum mags weren't too badly beat up. Admittedly the mags were a bit fragile, but like the soon to follow AR-15 aluminum mags, these were viewed as "disposable" items.

The original AR 10 design was years ahead of its time, and didn't really get any military sales as the FN FAL had the free world market pretty well sewed up. Too bad, so sad ... the original AR 10 was reliable, durable, accurate, and had some of the finest ergonomic handling characteristics of any of the battle rifles I've ever shot. No other 7.62 Nato full powered "battle" rifle could compare for CQB, and this is the only battle rifle that is even close to "managable" on fast forward.

The ORIGINAL AI built Sudanese and Portuguese variants were also very accurate. I once spent a pleasant afternoon at Heals range with some Old Farts shooting out to 600 yds with them. Even with the coarse AR 10 iron sights, I was able to put 5 shots of IVI BALL into a group that could be covered by an 8 1/2" x 11" sheet of paper. Of course, the old farts with their converted DCRA Lee Enfield # 4s were not overly impressed by this feat, but I sure was.

As for the new generation of AR 10 clones ... they have been designed to work with as many AR 15 parts as can be fitted in. While this concept may be great from a manufacturing and accessory interchangeability perspective, all of the new generation MUST compromise some reliability to make this enginereering sleight of hand work out.

As much as I love the AR 10 rifle, these days, with all the variations and caliber options available for the AR 15, I can not justify buying one for myself. Instead, I built a 16" AR 15 in .300 Whisper that I think will do everything I want in this type of firearm. And if I want .308 semi auto battle rifle, why then I'll buy me a cheap Norinco M-305 for a fraction of the cost, and put a straight line stock and pistol grip on it.

Just my personal opinion ...
YMMV.
[;{)
LAZ 1
 
darko said:
An AR15 is overly complex? ... wtf
Click to expand...

Sure, back in the good old days, the Martini Henry was the weapon of choice. Why they got rid of it is anyone's guess. Of course back them folks walked 10 miles to school in snow storms, up hill both ways etc, etc.
 
Lazerus 2000,

I haven't been reading too much lately about reliability problems with the AR-10. Especially the DPMS that I bought. But then again battle rifle vs range are two different tests for reliability. The DPMS mags appear to be well made and fairly sturdy (I undestand the previous pollymer mags had issues, but they have been changed).

That being said, everytime I open up my safe and see that AR-10 there's a big smile on my face. :D

A buddy of mine is an avid hunter and I was reluctant to show him the AR-10. When he saw it he was all over it and told me he couldn't wait to try it out. A pleasant surprise that's for sure. :cool:

I'll be waiting about a year before looking at getting a .223 AR. Right now Les Baer is my choice, but I'm going to see how this whole piston thing works out. I'm sceptical but a lot of people swear by it. We'll see.
 
Epoxy,
back in the day,
way back,
before it was politically incorrect,
I actually went hunting with a short barreled [ 18.5" ] Sudanese AR 10, 5 Rds of 180 Gr .308 Win SP in the mag. We were hunting MOOSE in Northern Saskatchewan, and at the time, there was a problem up there with black bears killing moose calves, so every moose hunter got absolutely free, TWO bear tags with a moose tag.

Northern Sask MOOSE are big ... bigger than most of the BC moose I've seen, and of course, black bears are black bears wherever they are. The hunting was in swamp/muskeg, where a beaver colony had been running free for the last few years, damming up an abandoned road . Lots of young brush, and a long shot would have been 50 yds.

The AR 10 shorty was ideal for these conditions ... 5 fast shots of 180 Gr SP.

Anyhow, we got several moose, a few bear, and a CO who wanted to ticket me for hunting bear and moose with an ILLEGAL [ in Saskatchewan ] AR 15.

I had to unload the mag and show him the .308 ammo before he would believe me ...
and even then he went away shaking his head and mumbling.
[;{)

One thing you will find with the AR 10 VS the M-14 ...
the AR 10 gas system and bolt design is NOT all that sensitive to heavy loads, whereas the 14 definitely is. The AR 10 rotating bolt design is also theoretically slightly more inherently accurate than the M-14design.

In actual real world experience with dozens of ORIGINAL AR 10 rifles, all of them were capable of superb accuracy. I can't remember any of the 10s that shot over 2" with a good load, without any tweaking..

The 14s, originals and Chines clones, were also capable of fine accuracy, but I've had several that started out well over 2", and had to be tweaked to get them down to a respectable group size.

Enjoy your AR 10 ...
it is one of the finest semi auto full powered "battle" rifle designs available.

My # 1 advice to you would be to buy as many boxes of different .308 and 7.62 BALL ammo as you can find, and try them all in your individual rifle. Some of the AR 10s I had preferred some lots of 7.62 NATO Ball way over 168 Gr HPBT match. Once you find a factory load that your rifle likes, buy lots.

PS: One of my AR 10 rifles really liked the Remington Accelerators [ .223 bullets in a Sabot at very Very VERY rapid velocity ]. That AR 10 [ and an Israeli Mauser bolt action in 7.62 Nato ] both shot these rounds very well. Both of these had the barrels shortened to 18.5", and that may have been why these two liked that load. The shorter/stiffer barrels often outshoot the longer barrels at closer ranges.

What I am hinting at, is that with an AR 10 and some sabot handloads or Rem Accelerators, you may NOT need an AR 15. You can also load 7.62 Russian123 Gr . 311" bullets intended for the AK-47 [ the Lapuas were what mine liked ] at about 2400 FPS, to duplicate 7.62X39 [ or .300 Whisper SUPERsonic loads ]. So you don't need a .300 Whisper AR 15 [ like I've got ].

With the AR-10 in .308, you can always load light if you want to, but with an AR-15, you can't load up as much as you might like.

Damn, now I've almost got myself talked into buying another AR 10 ... must resist ... must be strong .. AR 15s are .... NOT wimpy dwarf relatives ... AR 15s are ... gooooood.
[;{)
LAZ 1
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom