Paper patching for Grease groove

[rpratt]

When I was at a BPCR silhouette match last summer, I asked Kirk Bryan of Shiloh Sharps about shooting Paper Patched bullets in a modern grease groove barrel.
Kirk said “try it, you maybe surprised.”
Today I tried it and was surprised.
I used a Kal-tools mould to cast two weights of bullets, 536 & 591 gr. , .441”.
The bullets were patched to .451” seated .375” into a 45-70 Rem. case with 75 grs. of Goex FFg and a .050 CB wad.
The 536 gr. shoot into a 1.25” grp. And the 591gr. into a 2.25” grp. At 100yds. from a rest.
I used my Shiloh Sharps with a MVA scope. This is the first time I have shot patched bullets out of this gun.
Has anyone shoot PP’s in GG chambered rifles?

 

[gunlaker]

When I was at a BPCR silhouette match last summer, I asked Kirk Bryan of Shiloh Sharps about shooting Paper Patched bullets in a modern grease groove barrel.
Kirk said “try it, you maybe surprised.”
Today I tried it and was surprised.
I used a Kal-tools mould to cast two weights of bullets, 536 & 591 gr. , .441”.
The bullets were patched to .451” seated .375” into a 45-70 Rem. case with 75 grs. of Goex FFg and a .050 CB wad.
The 536 gr. shoot into a 1.25” grp. And the 591gr. into a 2.25” grp. At 100yds. from a rest.
I used my Shiloh Sharps with a MVA scope. This is the first time I have shot patched bullets out of this gun.
Has anyone shoot PP’s in GG chambered rifles?

I have a C. Sharps .45-110 that works very well with bullets patched to bore diameter. I use Norma brass as it's significantly thicker at the case mouth to prevent paper rings and patch tearing. What sort of paper are you using? I use 2 different types, one from Buffalo Arms that I use on .444" bullets and some Seth Cole onion skin that I found on ebay. It's thickness is perfect for .446" bullets.

How do you like that Kal-tools mould?

Chris.

 

[gunlaker]

Another couple of things that I've noticed when shooting bore diameter patched bullets from a rifle chambered for grease groove bullets:

1) I've found that seating the bullets out very far helps a lot. Mine are between 0.1" to 0.125" in the case.

2) for whatever reason, a 1/8" lube cookie really helped too.

Without both of these steps my rifle didn't shoot them well at all. With them it shoots quite well. It's my most accurate BP cartridge rifle.

I don't seem to have the ability to post pictures here, but this is a link to one of my targets once I got it figured out. The first target isn't shown but it was 3 shots into about 0.6" at 100m. I was so excited with the load that I stopped and moved up to the furthest target stand (only just past 200m at my range) and shot the target in that thread.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=85280

You'll find a number of guys on that board that shoot bore diameter patched bullets in GG rifles. Their advice is what got my rifle shooting so well.

Now I've got another rifle, but chambered specifically for paper patch bullets to play with. The chamber design came from Dan Theodore and was roughly based upon a chamber cast from an orignal Borchardt Sharps target rifle.

Chris.

 

[rpratt]

Hi gunlaker
I have grease groove moulds from Paul Jones and Steve Brooks, the Kal-tool mould is as good or better. It is very easy to cast with.
I am just starting to play with paper patch in my sharps.
I have patched with .0015” tracer paper from the Dollar Store and .0025” 25% rag.
I have just order this paper: http://www.thepapermillstore.com/product.php?productid=9304

 

[RangerRick]

I'll be starting once the weather warms up some. I have my Shilo Sharps coming in mid March, but I have all the casting goodies for PP bullets already, the only thing is I will be using AA5744 rather than blackpowder.
I know it's heresy and I'll probably have my house spraypainted, but thats my choice. It's so stupid humid here in the summer, I've seen red rust form while at the range using black powder in my TC muzzleloader.

I know that that 5744 and PP bullets have been and are being used out there, I just have to play with seating depth and more important, neck tension. Thoughts and experience on such a combo is appreciated.

Rick

 

[gunlaker]

I'll be starting once the weather warms up some. I have my Shilo Sharps coming in mid March, but I have all the casting goodies for PP bullets already, the only thing is I will be using AA5744 rather than blackpowder.
I know it's heresy and I'll probably have my house spraypainted, but thats my choice. It's so stupid humid here in the summer, I've seen red rust form while at the range using black powder in my TC muzzleloader.

I know that that 5744 and PP bullets have been and are being used out there, I just have to play with seating depth and more important, neck tension. Thoughts and experience on such a combo is appreciated.

Rick

I imagine that with smokeless you'll be patching to groove diameter? I've heard (but have not tried it) that even fast smokeless powder won't bump up a bore diameter bullet. It'd be interesting to see if that was fact or not

Chris.

 

[kodiak1]

Paper patching with smokless or black powder work great.
My preferrence is FFg or Fg. wad, grease cookie, wad bullet seated with finger pressure if possible.

Have shot them in the 40-90 SBN, 40-70 SS, 45-70, 45-100, and 50-90.

Good Luck Ken.

 

[buffdog]

Paper patched bullets

I have used paper patched bullets with good results. Even in some of the smaller calibres such as .303 and 30-06, these bullets are acceptable.

In fact, the Swiss Military originally used them in the 7.7 mm. Schmidt-Rubin rifles. The Model 90 Cartridge was loaded with semi-smokeless powder, a long round nosed, paper patched, hollow base lead bullet. The 90/03 replaced the lead bullet with a paper patched, steel jacketed one, and was only changed to a pure copper or steel jacketed bullet (both were made) in 1923. The .41 Calibre Swiss Vetterli Military rifle used the GP lead, paper patched bullet.

A standard, grooved, lead bullet mould can be used to cast lead bullets for paper patching. However, it is best to resize the patched and lubed bullets. The Lee type of push through sizer works well as it pushes the bullet into the sizer from the base. Longer, weight forward, round nosed bullets seem to work better.

In my case, a softer 1/20 lead mixture seems to work well, and does give an excellent hunting load. It is quite easy to drive a soft lead, paper patched bullet up to 2500 fps without leading the barrel, with accuracy. I love them in a 9.3x57 Husqvarna hunting rifle, as they can reach factory velocities. The 30-30, 44 Magnum, 38-55, 45-70, are good candidates for these bullets. In the 9.3x57, factory jacketed bullets cost between 40 and 80 cents each, but a cast lead, jacketed bullet, is only about 3 or 4 cents each.

One of the best bullet patching materials is old paper dress making pattern paper, used for sewing patterns. It is strong, tough, and stands up well to being wrapped on the bullets. You can find the older paper at yard sales and such, and a dollar's worth of the stuff at a yard sale will probably last you a lifetime.

A great book on these bullets is "The Paper Jacketed Bullet", by Paul Matthews. In it, there is a wealth of information. The original edition is out of print, but I believe a reprint is available. Some have been advertised on E-Bay.

It might reflect on the effectiveness of this type of bullet to remember that the demise of the Buffalo was caused by these cartridges.

.