Looking to a .45 Para vs. Kimber. I love the idea of the 10 round mag vs 7 or 8. The feelng I'm getting from shopping around is that the kimber might be a little "better". Finish, and out of the box accuracy. But I cant help but feel wanting at 7+1. Are my priorities wrong? Para Covert Black 14-45 vs Kimber Custom II in Black. I like the classic 1911 lines I dont care for the look of the adjustable sights available on other models. If the Kimber is the "better" Gun, i am wrong to hung up on the capacity issue? I am aware of the kimber BP Ten II their hi-cap offering, but i think it is ugly ( grip and frame assembly). :?
Para vs Kimber for a full size .45
- Thread starter Waggus
- Start date
- Location
- Edmonton AB
kimber is a much better gun, fit and finish wise, thats why they are also more, just take a look at your budget and remember, you get what you pay for :mrgreen:
remember , you can get 10 round single stack mags- they stick out a little, but it also levels the playing field- 10 rounds is 10 rouinds, doesn't matter how it's stacked- i like the feel of the single stack better than the wide body- and all the 1911 parts fit- both usgi and aftermarket-
trubluscrew
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- SW Ontario
I own a P 14-45 limited, and to be honest, I love it. Kimber is a smoother gun (my percieved opinions on fit and function). I also had a heck of a time to get use to the wide body. But really, I have no complaints with the Para. It's 100% smoother then a Norinco but not as nice as a Gold Cup. Like Medicman5555 says, you get what you pay for.
give me a Para anyday, especialy if you compete in IPSC in the USA, pull the plugs and your now a 18+1 and can compete in limited 10 as well with 5 min of work on mags. with yearly gunsmith maintainance you have a good running gun, never had a burp in 3 years with my Para, just keeps running. :wink:
I would gp with the Para for a couple of reasons. First I have owned two. The first a P-14 , that I gave my son, has been flawless, an absolutely accurate shooter with no FTF to date. New PAras have the Power Extractor which is a huge plus over the original designed extractor. I also have the Para SSP model and love it as well. Very accurate out of the box. Para Service is as good as it gets in the industry. Lastly it is a Canadian Company competing in a mature market with a government that is about as anti-gun as you can get. I believe in supporting Canaidan companies if their product is equal to or better than foreign made products and the Para is all of that and more.
Para will be my choice untill something proven comes along,I have had just to much good shooting and vurtualy no down time with this gun.It shoots anything you put in it, any weight or charge with a change of recoil spring, I load and shoot probly 10 to 12,000 rnds a year in competition and practice and can rely on this gun dirty or just cleaned.
Ken
Ken
I've own a Kimber LTP II and it works fine, HOWEVER looking at the 1911 forums in the USA a lot of guys having a lot of problems with the external extracter on the II series guns and from what I understand Kimber is going to discontinue the II series external extractor design and go back to the internal type . I would be checking into whats going on with Kimber before purchasing . Para has a good design but a world of difference in the feel of a single stack VS a high capacity double stack grip so I would strongly suggest knowing what you prefer in any make or model of 1911 pistol before you lay down $1200 give or take .
nitehawk55
nitehawk55
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
nitehawk55 said:
That's pretty damn funny on the extractors... :lol: Gotta love it when 21st century technology is dropped in favor of 100 year old. As for my vote, I have had three Kimbers (keeping my favorite :wink: ) and not a single Para (even though I love the fact they are Canadian and would like to support them for that reason alone)
Seems Kimber is having lots of problems with that external extractor as indicated on the US 1911 forums . My Kimber LTP seems fine so far but I guess from what I read it's luck of the draw on getting a gun that works OK or one with a lot of problems . Word is they will be switching back to an internal extractor soon .
I have not got my Para's out yet but mixed reviews in the forums on those but not as bad as Kimber these days . Seems all 1911' makers have a mixed group who support them or don't and you have to do a lot of reading between the lines as I'm sure Canuck44 will agree as he is involved in a lot of 1911.com discussions :wink: He has been very helpful resolving problems for some of the boys in the USA too I might add :mrgreen:
nitehawk55
I have not got my Para's out yet but mixed reviews in the forums on those but not as bad as Kimber these days . Seems all 1911' makers have a mixed group who support them or don't and you have to do a lot of reading between the lines as I'm sure Canuck44 will agree as he is involved in a lot of 1911.com discussions :wink: He has been very helpful resolving problems for some of the boys in the USA too I might add :mrgreen:
nitehawk55
Seems Kimber is having lots of problems with that external extractor as indicated on the US 1911 forums . My Kimber LTP seems fine so far but I guess from what I read it's luck of the draw on getting a gun that works OK or one with a lot of problems . Word is they will be switching back to an internal extractor soon .
I have not got my Para's out yet and have seen mixed reviews in the forums on those but not as bad as Kimber these days . Seems all 1911' makers have a mixed group who support them or don't and you have to do a lot of reading between the lines as I'm sure Canuck44 will agree as he is involved in a lot of 1911forum.com discussions :wink: He has been very helpful resolving problems for some of the boys in the USA too I might add and giving our Canadian made Para's support :mrgreen:
nitehawk55
I have not got my Para's out yet and have seen mixed reviews in the forums on those but not as bad as Kimber these days . Seems all 1911' makers have a mixed group who support them or don't and you have to do a lot of reading between the lines as I'm sure Canuck44 will agree as he is involved in a lot of 1911forum.com discussions :wink: He has been very helpful resolving problems for some of the boys in the USA too I might add and giving our Canadian made Para's support :mrgreen:
nitehawk55
My IPSC Para gun is built from a frame up kit and all parts are after market and put together by a competent gunsmith in P. George, and serviced totaly once a year, this gun runs and runs, the only way to go if you are a serious IPSC competitor or just fed up with guns that do not function at 100% efficiency, the only way to go especialy if you use it for a carry gun while guiding. As to its value or building costs, I hate to add that up, you get what you pay for it seems. and I dont worry about it not running at any match even after hundreds off rnds. like in a 3 day shoot. Any gun I have has been tuned up to run, out of the box guns will not usualy be that reliable. and there is nothing as sweet as a well tuned gun. unless its a well tuned women!!!! :roll:
ricka2, Kimbers have an externat extractor. Para's new Power Extractor is internal. Springfiels frames I believe are cast, not that makes much difference. Browning went to cast frames with their HiPower when they started making HiPowers in .40cal. The cast frames were stronger so now both the 9mm and .40 cal versions come with cast frames.
Waggus,
Para guns are offered in both double stack and single stack versions. I have owned them both. I sold my son my Para P-14 Ltd Stainless and bought a SSP single stack. Both guns shoot equally well an dI love them both.
If you are going to shoot IPSC PRoduction I would favout the Double Stack for ease of reloads, the double stack mags are faster to change in my opinion than the single stacks but that could just be me. IPSC has or is going to offer a single stack division and the SSP would work very well there too. I shoot primarily IDPA type shooting up here and reallly like my Para SSP for that purpose.
As far as the extractor issue goes I like the Para's INTERNAL power extractor. The claw on it is huge! Advantages? Well the coil extractors do solve one problem with the 1911 design. The 1911 is designed to function with the cartridge rising from the mag and the rim of the case sliding under the extractor. Sometimes due to a weak mag or just because a roound is either chambered or in the chamber with the slide back. Well for most of us the tendency is to release the slide and we assume the extractor claw will jump the rim case and life will be good...and it will EXCEPT the original extractor was never designed to do so and occasionally will break. Enter the coil spring extractors both internal and external. Both will jump the rim in the situation I described with damage to the extractor. From my eyes the coil spring extractors are a significant improvement over the older design. IMHO Browing would have designed the extractor the way Para did had we had the advancements in technologies we do today.
Why Para as mu choice over Kimber:
Canadian made
Para introduced to the 1911 world:
Double STack HI Capacity 1911's
Ramped fully supported barrels
Internal coil spring Power Extractor
They have a gun that will fill virtually every conceivable 1911 problem solving situation. For their price in my view a very good buy.
Para's life time warranty is the best in the business and is in writing. The KImber comes with a one year warranty.
Good luck with your choice, hope some of this helped.
Waggus,
Para guns are offered in both double stack and single stack versions. I have owned them both. I sold my son my Para P-14 Ltd Stainless and bought a SSP single stack. Both guns shoot equally well an dI love them both.
If you are going to shoot IPSC PRoduction I would favout the Double Stack for ease of reloads, the double stack mags are faster to change in my opinion than the single stacks but that could just be me. IPSC has or is going to offer a single stack division and the SSP would work very well there too. I shoot primarily IDPA type shooting up here and reallly like my Para SSP for that purpose.
As far as the extractor issue goes I like the Para's INTERNAL power extractor. The claw on it is huge! Advantages? Well the coil extractors do solve one problem with the 1911 design. The 1911 is designed to function with the cartridge rising from the mag and the rim of the case sliding under the extractor. Sometimes due to a weak mag or just because a roound is either chambered or in the chamber with the slide back. Well for most of us the tendency is to release the slide and we assume the extractor claw will jump the rim case and life will be good...and it will EXCEPT the original extractor was never designed to do so and occasionally will break. Enter the coil spring extractors both internal and external. Both will jump the rim in the situation I described with damage to the extractor. From my eyes the coil spring extractors are a significant improvement over the older design. IMHO Browing would have designed the extractor the way Para did had we had the advancements in technologies we do today.
Why Para as mu choice over Kimber:
Canadian made
Para introduced to the 1911 world:
Double STack HI Capacity 1911's
Ramped fully supported barrels
Internal coil spring Power Extractor
They have a gun that will fill virtually every conceivable 1911 problem solving situation. For their price in my view a very good buy.
Para's life time warranty is the best in the business and is in writing. The KImber comes with a one year warranty.
Good luck with your choice, hope some of this helped.
ricka2, Kimbers have an externat extractor. Para's new Power Extractor is internal. Springfiels frames I believe are cast, not that makes much difference. Browning went to cast frames with their HiPower when they started making HiPowers in .40cal. The cast frames were stronger so now both the 9mm and .40 cal versions come with cast frames.
Waggus,
Para guns are offered in both double stack and single stack versions. I have owned them both. I sold my son my Para P-14 Ltd Stainless and bought a SSP single stack. Both guns shoot equally well an dI love them both.
If you are going to shoot IPSC PRoduction I would favout the Double Stack for ease of reloads, the double stack mags are faster to change in my opinion than the single stacks but that could just be me. IPSC has or is going to offer a single stack division and the SSP would work very well there too. I shoot primarily IDPA type shooting up here and reallly like my Para SSP for that purpose.
As far as the extractor issue goes I like the Para's INTERNAL power extractor. The claw on it is huge! Advantages? Well the coil extractors do solve one problem with the 1911 design. The 1911 is designed to function with the cartridge rising from the mag and the rim of the case sliding under the extractor. Sometimes due to a weak mag or just because a roound is either chambered or in the chamber with the slide back. Well for most of us the tendency is to release the slide and we assume the extractor claw will jump the rim case and life will be good...and it will EXCEPT the original extractor was never designed to do so and occasionally will break. Enter the coil spring extractors both internal and external. Both will jump the rim in the situation I described with damage to the extractor. From my eyes the coil spring extractors are a significant improvement over the older design. IMHO Browing would have designed the extractor the way Para did had we had the advancements in technologies we do today.
Why Para as mu choice over Kimber:
Canadian made
Para introduced to the 1911 world:
Double STack HI Capacity 1911's
Ramped fully supported barrels
Internal coil spring Power Extractor
They have a gun that will fill virtually every conceivable 1911 problem solving situation. For their price in my view a very good buy.
Para's life time warranty is the best in the business and is in writing. The KImber comes with a one year warranty.
Good luck with your choice, hope some of this helped.
Waggus,
Para guns are offered in both double stack and single stack versions. I have owned them both. I sold my son my Para P-14 Ltd Stainless and bought a SSP single stack. Both guns shoot equally well an dI love them both.
If you are going to shoot IPSC PRoduction I would favout the Double Stack for ease of reloads, the double stack mags are faster to change in my opinion than the single stacks but that could just be me. IPSC has or is going to offer a single stack division and the SSP would work very well there too. I shoot primarily IDPA type shooting up here and reallly like my Para SSP for that purpose.
As far as the extractor issue goes I like the Para's INTERNAL power extractor. The claw on it is huge! Advantages? Well the coil extractors do solve one problem with the 1911 design. The 1911 is designed to function with the cartridge rising from the mag and the rim of the case sliding under the extractor. Sometimes due to a weak mag or just because a roound is either chambered or in the chamber with the slide back. Well for most of us the tendency is to release the slide and we assume the extractor claw will jump the rim case and life will be good...and it will EXCEPT the original extractor was never designed to do so and occasionally will break. Enter the coil spring extractors both internal and external. Both will jump the rim in the situation I described with damage to the extractor. From my eyes the coil spring extractors are a significant improvement over the older design. IMHO Browing would have designed the extractor the way Para did had we had the advancements in technologies we do today.
Why Para as mu choice over Kimber:
Canadian made
Para introduced to the 1911 world:
Double STack HI Capacity 1911's
Ramped fully supported barrels
Internal coil spring Power Extractor
They have a gun that will fill virtually every conceivable 1911 problem solving situation. For their price in my view a very good buy.
Para's life time warranty is the best in the business and is in writing. The KImber comes with a one year warranty.
Good luck with your choice, hope some of this helped.
ricka2, Kimbers have an externat extractor. Para's new Power Extractor is internal. Springfiels frames I believe are cast, not that makes much difference. Browning went to cast frames with their HiPower when they started making HiPowers in .40cal. The cast frames were stronger so now both the 9mm and .40 cal versions come with cast frames.
Waggus,
Para guns are offered in both double stack and single stack versions. I have owned them both. I sold my son my Para P-14 Ltd Stainless and bought a SSP single stack. Both guns shoot equally well an dI love them both.
If you are going to shoot IPSC PRoduction I would favout the Double Stack for ease of reloads, the double stack mags are faster to change in my opinion than the single stacks but that could just be me. IPSC has or is going to offer a single stack division and the SSP would work very well there too. I shoot primarily IDPA type shooting up here and reallly like my Para SSP for that purpose.
As far as the extractor issue goes I like the Para's INTERNAL power extractor. The claw on it is huge! Advantages? Well the coil extractors do solve one problem with the 1911 design. The 1911 is designed to function with the cartridge rising from the mag and the rim of the case sliding under the extractor. Sometimes due to a weak mag or just because a roound is either chambered or in the chamber with the slide back. Well for most of us the tendency is to release the slide and we assume the extractor claw will jump the rim case and life will be good...and it will EXCEPT the original extractor was never designed to do so and occasionally will break. Enter the coil spring extractors both internal and external. Both will jump the rim in the situation I described with damage to the extractor. From my eyes the coil spring extractors are a significant improvement over the older design. IMHO Browing would have designed the extractor the way Para did had we had the advancements in technologies we do today.
Why Para as mu choice over Kimber:
Canadian made
Para introduced to the 1911 world:
Double STack HI Capacity 1911's
Ramped fully supported barrels
Internal coil spring Power Extractor
They have a gun that will fill virtually every conceivable 1911 problem solving situation. For their price in my view a very good buy.
Para's life time warranty is the best in the business and is in writing. The KImber comes with a one year warranty.
Good luck with your choice, hope some of this helped.
Waggus,
Para guns are offered in both double stack and single stack versions. I have owned them both. I sold my son my Para P-14 Ltd Stainless and bought a SSP single stack. Both guns shoot equally well an dI love them both.
If you are going to shoot IPSC PRoduction I would favout the Double Stack for ease of reloads, the double stack mags are faster to change in my opinion than the single stacks but that could just be me. IPSC has or is going to offer a single stack division and the SSP would work very well there too. I shoot primarily IDPA type shooting up here and reallly like my Para SSP for that purpose.
As far as the extractor issue goes I like the Para's INTERNAL power extractor. The claw on it is huge! Advantages? Well the coil extractors do solve one problem with the 1911 design. The 1911 is designed to function with the cartridge rising from the mag and the rim of the case sliding under the extractor. Sometimes due to a weak mag or just because a roound is either chambered or in the chamber with the slide back. Well for most of us the tendency is to release the slide and we assume the extractor claw will jump the rim case and life will be good...and it will EXCEPT the original extractor was never designed to do so and occasionally will break. Enter the coil spring extractors both internal and external. Both will jump the rim in the situation I described with damage to the extractor. From my eyes the coil spring extractors are a significant improvement over the older design. IMHO Browing would have designed the extractor the way Para did had we had the advancements in technologies we do today.
Why Para as mu choice over Kimber:
Canadian made
Para introduced to the 1911 world:
Double STack HI Capacity 1911's
Ramped fully supported barrels
Internal coil spring Power Extractor
They have a gun that will fill virtually every conceivable 1911 problem solving situation. For their price in my view a very good buy.
Para's life time warranty is the best in the business and is in writing. The KImber comes with a one year warranty.
Good luck with your choice, hope some of this helped.
ricka2, Kimbers have an externat extractor. Para's new Power Extractor is internal. Springfiels frames I believe are cast, not that makes much difference. Browning went to cast frames with their HiPower when they started making HiPowers in .40cal. The cast frames were stronger so now both the 9mm and .40 cal versions come with cast frames.
Waggus,
Para guns are offered in both double stack and single stack versions. I have owned them both. I sold my son my Para P-14 Ltd Stainless and bought a SSP single stack. Both guns shoot equally well and I love them both.
If you are going to shoot IPSC PRoduction I would favour the Double Stack for ease of reloads, the double stack mags are faster to change in my opinion than the single stacks but that could just be me. IPSC has or is going to offer a single stack division and the SSP would work very well there too. I shoot primarily IDPA type shooting up here and reallly like my Para SSP for that purpose.
As far as the extractor issue goes I like the Para's INTERNAL power extractor. The claw on it is huge! Advantages? Well the coil extractors do solve one problem with the 1911 design. The 1911 is designed to function with the cartridge rising from the mag and the rim of the case sliding under the extractor. Sometimes due to a weak mag or just because a roound is either chambered or in the chamber with the slide back. Well for most of us the tendency is to release the slide and we assume the extractor claw will jump the rim case and life will be good...and it will EXCEPT the original extractor was never designed to do so and occasionally will break. Enter the coil spring extractors both internal and external. Both will jump the rim in the situation I described without damage to the extractor. From my eyes the coil spring extractors are a significant improvement over the older design. IMHO Browing would have designed the extractor the way Para did had he had the advancements in technologies we do today.
Why Para as my choice over Kimber:
Canadian made
Para introduced to the 1911 world:
Double STack HI Capacity 1911's
Ramped fully supported barrels
Internal coil spring Power Extractor
They have a gun that will fill virtually every conceivable 1911 problem solving situation. For their price in my view a very good buy.
Para's life time warranty is the best in the business and is in writing. The KImber comes with a one year warranty.
Good luck with your choice, hope some of this helped.
Waggus,
Para guns are offered in both double stack and single stack versions. I have owned them both. I sold my son my Para P-14 Ltd Stainless and bought a SSP single stack. Both guns shoot equally well and I love them both.
If you are going to shoot IPSC PRoduction I would favour the Double Stack for ease of reloads, the double stack mags are faster to change in my opinion than the single stacks but that could just be me. IPSC has or is going to offer a single stack division and the SSP would work very well there too. I shoot primarily IDPA type shooting up here and reallly like my Para SSP for that purpose.
As far as the extractor issue goes I like the Para's INTERNAL power extractor. The claw on it is huge! Advantages? Well the coil extractors do solve one problem with the 1911 design. The 1911 is designed to function with the cartridge rising from the mag and the rim of the case sliding under the extractor. Sometimes due to a weak mag or just because a roound is either chambered or in the chamber with the slide back. Well for most of us the tendency is to release the slide and we assume the extractor claw will jump the rim case and life will be good...and it will EXCEPT the original extractor was never designed to do so and occasionally will break. Enter the coil spring extractors both internal and external. Both will jump the rim in the situation I described without damage to the extractor. From my eyes the coil spring extractors are a significant improvement over the older design. IMHO Browing would have designed the extractor the way Para did had he had the advancements in technologies we do today.
Why Para as my choice over Kimber:
Canadian made
Para introduced to the 1911 world:
Double STack HI Capacity 1911's
Ramped fully supported barrels
Internal coil spring Power Extractor
They have a gun that will fill virtually every conceivable 1911 problem solving situation. For their price in my view a very good buy.
Para's life time warranty is the best in the business and is in writing. The KImber comes with a one year warranty.
Good luck with your choice, hope some of this helped.
