Patterning my Citori

[BCFred]

Thought I would learn to shoot trap and found that my old single shot Iver Johnson was a bit of a problem. One guy even said "Jeez, I'm glad I'm not shooting that!", as he looked at the hammer, and he was trying to be nice! Undaunted, I pressed on having read the posts here giving advice on shooting with anything and having fun, besides I liked the old IJ. Indeed, I have become extremely good at conserving traps and with the snow being soft like it is right now I can often get two or three uses out of a trap before having to put something else in the machine. (Needless to say few of the other guys are this good!)
Then one of these moments in life happened as I spotted all alone on a shelf, for a modest price, a second hand Browning Citori Trap shotgun. You all know these moments; The William Tell Overture playing in the background (Or Thus Spake Tharathustra if you want to get picky) and the sun creeping over the hills in the silver dawn, the shortness of breath, etc. You might think too at this point, that the Citori is twice the shotgun I have ever owned and you would definitely be right about that. Now as I conserve trap in my usual way, my gun tells me it's my fault. You hardly have to listen to hear it laughing. This is a good reason not to have superior, or even good, equipment, by the way.
Wanting to do things right and hoping to improve I went out and tried patterning it. It puts more shot above than below the line as my books, and you guys on this website, say it should.
Using 1oz loads at 35 yards and 30 inch targets I counted 1044 holes on the top and 339 on the bottom. I think this is probably OK, maybe too much on top and would be willing to listen to opinions on this.
The problem arose when I looked at right/left patterns. The upper barrel (full choke) put 579 pellets on the left side and 327 on the right. The under barrel (modified and improved modified) put 211 on the left and 246 on the right. The pattern was a little open with the modified choke and really nice with the improved modified choke. So probably improved modified for the under barrel is clear. But, the full choke in the upper barrel is putting way more pellets on the left side of the pattern. You can see it right away when looking at the target. I have only taken three shots with the top barrel, but I shot from a rest and called the shots as good and could see the pattern difference each time. So, it wasn't one bad shot. It is only fair to note that I haven't tried to shoot a trap with the upper barrel yet...not sure why. Where do I go from here? BCfred

 

[Covey Ridge]

BCFred:

I think you got your numbers wrong. In a 1 oz load you would have about 410 #8 shot or 585 #9 shot but you claim 1044 holes on top and 339 on bottom. That's 1383. Does not add up. Your other numbers do not add up either.

Now there are several ways and purposes of patterning. #1- to determine the choke restriction of your barrel. Shoot at 40 yards. Measure a 30 inch circle around the densest part of pattern and count pellet holes within the circle and divided by number of pellets in load. eg 70% in 30 inch circle equals full choke. #2- bench your gun and shoot at a marked target and distance you expect to shoot targets. This will tell you if your gun shots high, low, left, or right, really not that important for a wing shooter. #3- mount gun, point at target and shoot when gun comes to your eye and shoulder. This will tell you where your gun is shooting in relation to where you are looking or pointing. It will tell you if your gun needs more or less drop at comb and cast on or cast off, and maybe length of pull. This last method is the best method to determine correct fit but it also depends on knowing the proper way to mount a gun. For trap shooting, many prefer a gun to pattern from slightly high to nearly a full pattern high at the target distance. Hope this does not confuse you too much.

 

[doubleman]

bcfred
Thats about standard for a citori trap gun 70/30 or 80/20(meaning 70%above center and 30% below) because you are shooting at a rising target. With regards to left and right on the top bbl try changing the choke and see what the result are if it stays to the left I wouldn't worry about it much as you will probably never notice it on a target. The i/m choke to me is the ideal 16 yard choke and whatever bbl you shoot the most makes no difference, its personal preferance. You have an exellent trap gun so from here you go to the gun club and shoot the hell out of it and have a bunch of fun watching your scores improve. Have Fun!

 

[Covey Ridge]

doubleman's advice is the best. BCFred, just go and shoot the hell out of your gun and enjoy. You can get technical later. All the best.

 

[BCFred]

BCFred:

I think you got your numbers wrong. In a 1 oz load you would have about 410 #8 shot or 585 #9 shot but you claim 1044 holes on top and 339 on bottom. That's 1383. Does not add up. Your other numbers do not add up either.

Now there are several ways and purposes of patterning. #1- to determine the choke restriction of your barrel. Shoot at 40 yards. Measure a 30 inch circle around the densest part of pattern and count pellet holes within the circle and divided by number of pellets in load. eg 70% in 30 inch circle equals full choke. #2- bench your gun and shoot at a marked target and distance you expect to shoot targets. This will tell you if your gun shots high, low, left, or right, really not that important for a wing shooter. #3- mount gun, point at target and shoot when gun comes to your eye and shoulder. This will tell you where your gun is shooting in relation to where you are looking or pointing. It will tell you if your gun needs more or less drop at comb and cast on or cast off, and maybe length of pull. This last method is the best method to determine correct fit but it also depends on knowing the proper way to mount a gun. For trap shooting, many prefer a gun to pattern from slightly high to nearly a full pattern high at the target distance. Hope this does not confuse you too much.

The numbers are based on three shots through the upper barrel and 2 through the lower barrel. Fred

 

[straightshooter]

Have you tried a variety of ammo? I'd try patterning at least 2 different manufacturer's shells before coming to any conclusions. It could be something as simple as the shot cup used in a particular shell.

 

[Grouse Man]

Totally correct; different ammo will pattern differently. As will different sized shot in the same brand. You're not afraid to put in time at the patterning board, good for you. And then blast away!

 

[BCFred]

Thank you guys very much for your helpful replies and encouragement (never hurts to get a bit of this). Hope it is OK to reply twice on my own post. It is difficult to find opportunities to practice right now. The snow is quite deep and the local club, generally a good bunch, is quite small. The shoots that they hold seem to make it hard for me to learn. They happen once per month, then shut down in the winter. From watching the practices I would say they are about the same. The club seldom, if ever, shoots at the 16 yard line and the events are not standard trap, e.g. Annie Oakley, knock outs etc. In fact, the distances can range out as far as 60 or 70 yards. An unusual situation for a guy who started hunting ducks with his dad 60 years ago and had it drilled into his head that 40 yards was the range for a 12 bore (period!). I need to shoot alot at the 16 yard line and anything else probably wont help that much. So, what others feel is fun isn't for me. I feel I am just wasting ammo shooting at that range, though at least I'm not crippling anything. The club has loaned me a Trap thrower and given me a deal on clay pigeons (told you they are a good bunch). My wife pulls the cord quite happily. So far I have done 250 traps, sometimes shot two times, of course, but weather often holds us back from practicing, especially cold (-15 or-20 is just too cold) or heavy snow (access). There is a club that practices once per week, apparently, in a town about 50 km away and I am looking into that.
I started the patterning because I wanted to know how the gun behaved. Thought I might be able to get this done before the serious practices and matches started in the spring. Have been doing patterning on 32X32 inch square targets cut into equal quadrants with an aiming circle in the middle and I count everything on the target, not standard I see, and I will certainly follow the advice here in terms of figuring out how things are going with my shooting, i.e. follow the 3 purposes in patterning etc. Not sure I am positioning the shotgun correctly yet, though I have had a more experienced shooter watch me hold the shotgun and have tried to follow the books too. The one comment I have had, so far, is that my head is pretty far back on the stock. This might come from shooting target rifles for so many years. At any rate, I have been trying to change head position and making sure that the sight picture is correct before calling pull. Again, thanks for comments... Do you think it might be a good idea to shoot at paper until the pattern is centered on the target? fred

 

[Covey Ridge]

Again, thanks for comments... Do you think it might be a good idea to shoot at paper until the pattern is centered on the target? fred

Fred:
Sorry I did not post a reply since your last post. I thought that there would be others who would offer their opinions. Here is my .02 worth. I would not shoot too much paper for practice. I think it is useful to figure out things like stock fit, point of impact or pattern, and shell pattern efficiency. Other than that, I do not see too much point. The club activities you mentioned may be fun, but you are right in that they are not going to help you learn to shoot better. I would go to that other club you mentioned. Hope it is a trap or skeet or other clay sport club and not just a bunch who want to shoot Anne Oakley and turkey shoot. If there is a skeet range, get yourself off to station seven with someone who knows how to shoot and shoot just the low house for a while. If there is a trap range, ask if you can shoot a little with just a coach. Go to station 2, 3, or 4 and shoot a bunch in front of the 16 yard line. With just a little bit of instruction you will be breaking targets and will not have anything to pick up.

If this does not work for you come to Calgary anytime in the spring or summer between Wednesday and Sunday and you can shoot at the a.h.e.i.a. range with full instruction. If you know what day your coming, pm me and maybe I will be able to join you.

 

[BCFred]

Fred:
If this does not work for you come to Calgary anytime in the spring or summer between Wednesday and Sunday and you can shoot at the a.h.e.i.a. range with full instruction. If you know what day your coming, pm me and maybe I will be able to join you.

Thank you very much. Sounds like a first class club in Calgary. Contacted the other club and they practice one day a week throughout the year and I am welcome to show up. Still doesn't mean I wont come to Calgary some day. It sounds like it would be a real joy to shoot at your club.

 

[12magnum]

bcfred enjoy your citori. go out and shoot hell out of it and your trap scores will definately improve. the guys gave you some good advice. i've got two citoris and i know how you felt when you saw it on a shelf at a good price. it needed a good home. resistence is futile. i've got a fair few trap and skeet guns that have laughed themselves silly at me over the years.