It orginaly came in 9x18 and later production was in 9x19.
PDW Cartridges
- Thread starter Suputin
- Start date
It orginaly came in 9x18 and later production was in 9x19.
In overall length I believe there is not much difference between the SAR CQB and the KAC PDWay be a couple of inches .Personaly IMO the current rifle cartridge SS109 or the Green Tip ball will be more than adaquate to perform the task of a PDW ov
Because getting any uncommon new round in quantity is bound to be a bit of a hassle and expensive, especially in a place like Canada where only thee most commercially established rounds are easy to get a hold of.
Also, there's so much performance overlap between the ridiculous number of rounds that are already established on the market that its not really worth having to deal with the above, especially if that round were only viable in a specialized format like a PDW.
Its called handloading.
Anyone who is serious about shooting is well advised to understand and get into it.
Ammo drying up can and does happen with the most common ammunition (re. 223 and 308 in recent history).
The most technologically advanced ammo will always be recent production based on advancements in component designs.
If you are looking for off the shelf at your local walmart, this kind of thing is likely out of your lane anyhow.
Imho.
SS109 ball was designed to perform terminally within a specific velocity range. Below that range the bullet does not produce a decent wound track and is ineffective. In a short barreled PDW, SS109 is simply not effective due to the velocity loss.
Hence the reason the PDW round I have been developing uses common, off-the-shelf components and reloading dies. It requires no special or specific equipment to produce. It is specifically designed to operate through the AR mag so that it can be easily adapted to any rifle that uses that mag.
It is cheap and easy to live with. It is easy to form and it works in the most common magazine. What's not to like?
M1/M2 Carbine was a proprietary round PDW-predecessor. So there is a precedent for a new chambering.
I suppose a modern M1/M2 Carbine that took AR mags would be in .300 Whisper.
A PDW in .556mm NATO would be an assault rifle, a 9mm would be an SMG, so it would probably be a new round to the military.
Gunnerlove
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vancouver Island
It is interesting to see the PDW (which is a relic of the cold war) getting so much interest today. All of the conflicts of the last 40 years have shown that there is in reality no rear area where support elements can operate with little risk of engagement.
In reality a folding stock carbine would be a better choice for 90% of the market a PDW is aimed at and the other 10% would suit a small club. Barrel length be damned it is ammo, mags, ergonomics and controls that need to be the same across the board. Or under stress you will have people shooting themselves in the hands with wonderfull short weapons like the FNP90 (ask me how hot the muzzle gets when the ammo is free) when grabbing for the handguard of their C7.
In reality a folding stock carbine would be a better choice for 90% of the market a PDW is aimed at and the other 10% would suit a small club. Barrel length be damned it is ammo, mags, ergonomics and controls that need to be the same across the board. Or under stress you will have people shooting themselves in the hands with wonderfull short weapons like the FNP90 (ask me how hot the muzzle gets when the ammo is free) when grabbing for the handguard of their C7.
SS109 was NOT designed to fragment at a certain velocity. It just happened that way, and it was documented and studied years later. The design criteria was mainly for penetrating steel plate back in the days of cold war in the late 70's.
winnipegger
CGN frequent flyer
If you are going to quote a 5.56 load that would be an adequate PDW round at least quote one that still has solid lethality out of a short barrel. One such example would be mk262 mod 1 77 gr OTM.
I have had the SAN for years and handled the KAC PDW a few times - The SAN CQB is a monster in weight and dimension compared to the KAC PDW.
A swiss arms receiver is at least 1 full inch longer than an AR 15 and at least a full lb heavier. It is a "big" system.
If this is a PDW, most of the people who have to carry ones(or have it stashed in the cockits) are armoured and helicopter crews (or even pilots). My personal opinion is that introducing another caliber is problematic and will just add to logistic headache. A weapon without ammo is just a rock - in the case of a pdw it is not even a very heavy rock and you cannot even use it as a club.
Seriously, once you have bailed out, you become an infanteer whether you like it or now.....so use an infantry weapon!
From left:
6mm 70gr Ballistic Tip, 5.56mm 55gr FMJ, 6mm 87gr VMAX.
Out of a short barrel, the bigger, heavier 6mm bullets have more velocity than the 55gr 556 bullet. Try to add weight to the 556 round and you lose even more velocity. It is a lose, lose situation for the 556 round in a short barrel.
Some potential PDW cartridges From left:
5.7x28, 6x35 KAC, 300 Whisper, 6x38 SPEX, 7.62x39, 5.56x45
I think the 6x35 is a great idea for a PDW cartridge with the sole exception that it is too short to feed reliably through the ubiquitous AR mag and thus the AR platform. So I designed a new cartridge that will feed reliably from an AR mag. Due to the extra case length we are getting about 100 fps more velocity than the 6x35 KAC from the same length barrel.
6x38 SPEX ammo in a PMag underneath 556 ammo in a PMag for comparison.
Gunnerlove
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vancouver Island
If you are forced down you want to be running something compatible with the troops in the back.
I was more thinking of sticking to the 70-90gr range for bullet weights to maintain a reasonable velocity. I am certain the cartridge could handle 100+ grain bullets as there is def enough room in the mag. I really hand't considered subsonics in this case. For that I will use the 300 Whisper.
Twist rate would be up to the user. I don't really have strong feelings on it either way.
I am in the middle of load development for both 70gr and 87gr bullets. Right now the case is producing about 100 fps more velocity than the 6x35 KAC.
I have a pretty good idea of the easiest way to form cases and the simplest dies to use. Everything is off-the-shelf to make it easy to live with. No custom components needed.
FWIW this is the 6x38 PDW that I am using for R&D.
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