PE90 and SL8 mag change speed

The Swiss uses a AK47-esque rocker motion ( similar to the CZ 858 ) and I find it slower than an AR. Can't comment on the HK as mine had the AR magwell.
 
For the majority of shooters, the AR 'manual of arms' on magazine changes is almost invariably quicker.
In the real world, the difference is likely not significant.
 
its a quick mag change, but no good in a battle. you need to keep your mags.

cant stop to pick them up if you need to change fire positions in a hurry.

the couple of extra seconds to place the mag back in your pocket or pouch will save later in the day.
when all you have is little brown boxes of ammo and no way of feeding the rifle.

plus all mag changes when possible are done under cover. if your standing out in the open, well chances are you might not need the next mag.


sl8 is fast.
both with stock and AR adapter.
but get the mag well adapter for reliable fast changes. plus 10 round mags :p

i got to shoot a sig 552 in Afghanistan the Dutch sf guys rock them ,same system. their was another unit using them too but not sure what unit as they were always in civie's :p
i never did a mag change on it though.

any system with practice will be quick.
 
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doots said:
its a quick mag change, but no good in a battle. you need to keep your mags.

cant stop to pick them up if you need to change fire positions in a hurry.

.
Click to expand...

The last thing on your mind in a firefight is the fate of the empty mag if you shoot your rifle dry. Getting a charged mag locked and loaded and back into the fight is paramount. An empty rifle is an awkward club, nothing more.

Most guys now carry at least 10-12 mags on their body via tac vest, chest rig or webbing, more in their ruck and there is usually lots of extra loaded mags waiting for resupply in the LAV.

Win the fight, kill the bad guy and secure the area, then, you might think about picking up discarded mags.

With respect to the C7/C8...if you're issued one, you aren't paying for mags anyway, so you aren't going to be scrabbling around in the rocks while under fire to save the government $5.00. ;)

Now if you were shooting your own SIG and paid $100.00 a pop for your own mags...I'd probably make sure I wore my kneepads!:D
 
Under fire, I don't give a flying crap about saving the one magazine. The mag I save isn't worth #### if my team mate or I am hit because I could not return fire soon enough. The priority is putting down the enemy, or moving to a position of cover.

If I am in cover, with the proper time and opportunity, I will save the magazine. Otherwise, I dump the magazine, even if there are a few remaining rounds. A dump pouch full of depleted or partial magazines isn't worth a chest full of holes.
 
rocknrolla

if u run out of mags what are you going to put your bullets into?

the lav is not always going to be right behind you.
all the mags were are issued are on our bodies.
we may have a few extra in car.

and with respect to the c7/c8 i went through battle school in 2002 and am pretty sure they teach it the same, as to hang on to your mags and not discard them for that reason alone. they don't really care about the cost of the mag they have tons of them. each company is allotted close to 2000 magazines.
and can get more at the request of the CQ.

you fight with you section , we have drills to ensure the volume of fire is sustained. letting your fire team partner/section know you are changing mags. complete the mag change properly and continue firing.

and you are right the last thing on your mind is worrying about and empty mag that's why the schools teach you muscle memory to place the mag back in a pouch or pocket.
so you have it when you need to bomb up.

their are always situations that dictate other wise. if u have to throw a mag throw a mag


as u said an empty rifle is an awkward club, when your stuck with only 5 mags because you have been throwing them around, the next tic is gonna be a ruff one when your section commander is losing his s**t on you. would be a nice excuse to see some one try.... i wanted to be faster so i just threw them, its ok Sgt we got more in the lav.

thankfully all the trained troops i have had the pleasure of working with don't have this mentality. losing one or two s**ts going happen running around jumping over mud walls,but purposely tossing them goes against everything that i was taught in the past 9 years.

their are always situations that dictate other wise.
if you have to throw a mag throw a mag .

if your practicing reloading or working on the range, practice with the drop pouch or pocket. when time comes after all your training muscle memory kicks in and you don't even notice what you did till its all over.

their are numerous accounts of guys and friends who cant believe they just went threw a number of mags on the run from cover to cover changes on the fly. once the lul hits they look in their vest to find they fired half their mags. all discarded ones were in the drop bag or dump pocket.
muscle memory is why the army repeats stuff and it makes for well trained soldiers.
 
doots said:
rocknrolla

if u run out of mags what are you going to put your bullets into?

the lav is not always going to be right behind you.
all the mags were are issued are on our bodies.
we may have a few extra in car.

and with respect to the c7/c8 i went through battle school in 2002 and am pretty sure they teach it the same, as to hang on to your mags and not discard them for that reason alone. they don't really care about the cost of the mag they have tons of them. each company is allotted close to 2000 magazines.
and can get more at the request of the CQ.

you fight with you section , we have drills to ensure the volume of fire is sustained. letting your fire team partner/section know you are changing mags. complete the mag change properly and continue firing.

and you are right the last thing on your mind is worrying about and empty mag that's why the schools teach you muscle memory to place the mag back in a pouch or pocket.
so you have it when you need to bomb up.

their are always situations that dictate other wise. if u have to throw a mag throw a mag


as u said an empty rifle is an awkward club, when your stuck with only 5 mags because you have been throwing them around, the next tic is gonna be a ruff one when your section commander is losing his s**t on you. would be a nice excuse to see some one try.... i wanted to be faster so i just threw them, its ok Sgt we got more in the lav.

thankfully all the trained troops i have had the pleasure of working with don't have this mentality. losing one or two s**ts going happen running around jumping over mud walls,but purposely tossing them goes against everything that i was taught in the past 9 years.

their are always situations that dictate other wise.
if you have to throw a mag throw a mag .

if your practicing reloading or working on the range, practice with the drop pouch or pocket. when time comes after all your training muscle memory kicks in and you don't even notice what you did till its all over.

their are numerous accounts of guys and friends who cant believe they just went threw a number of mags on the run from cover to cover changes on the fly. once the lul hits they look in their vest to find they fired half their mags. all discarded ones were in the drop bag or dump pocket.
muscle memory is why the army repeats stuff and it makes for well trained soldiers.
Click to expand...

+1

A good friend of mine that deployed to Afghanistan (as well as my other friend that's a Master Cprl. in the CF, and does instruction and teaching, as well as doing BMQ and SQ instruction) have both taught me the same thing.

If you need an emergency mag change, then dump it and change it, but don't throw away anything if you don't HAVE to.


FWIW I have shot my buddy's Swiss arms black special, and done mag reloads with the rocker style mags, and can do them just as quick as mag changes with my USC/UMP, or with an AR15 with a push button release. FWIW my hand sits on the magwell for my USC/UMP and the mag release paddle is very close to my thumb, so they fall free and I can grab a new one if need be. However since my hand is already on the mag, I usually just follow the mag down to my dump pouch.

TRAINING is key, you can have the easiest and fastest mag change type rifle in the world, but if you don't train with them it means exactly 0.


I always shoot and train to put spent mags in my dump pouch. In Afghanistan, my friend told me "You never give the enemy something they can use later." . extra mags, extra rounds of ammo for an IED later. Not to mention 'practicing' dumping mags on the ground is bad form...


I also know a guy with a big bren gun pouch he keeps on the front of his tac-vest, and he uses that as his dump pouch, so all his mag reloads are trained so the mag dumps right into the big pouch at his front, and he does 2 handed reloads. Seems very quick but requires the gun to be pointing directly to your side, not in a "safe" direction.
 
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