Pedersoli 1853 Enfield

Deano

Deano

Regular
Rating - 100%
69   0   0
Location
Winnipeg, Manitoba
I see that Marstar is selling the Pedersoli line up. I am curious about the 1853 Enfield Rifle, .58 caliber.

What are these like to shoot? How is the accuracy? This type of rifle was used in the US Civil War, and I have read that rifles used were fairly accurate (for the time) and would probably shoot 3-4 inches at 100 yards. Would this be about right, or overly optimistic?

Would I be able to take it out in a blackpowder muzzleloading season and attempt a shot on a deer at a moderate range, 70-100 yards tops?

Finally, since I know extremely little about these rifles, what type of other odds and sods would I have to buy if I wanted to shoot it.

I have only had one muzzleloader in my life and it was an inline BK 92, so other than the obvious things, like a ball starter and a powder measure, I didn't really need much else. I would assume I need quite a bit more with this, if I buy it.
 
Deano:

I believe that the Pedersoli line of reproduction firearms is about as good as they get these days in what is available "over-the-counter". However, if you check back with the Marstar site, you'll find that the Enfield replicas they offer are made by another Italian manufacturer, Armi Sport. Not to denigrate their products, mind you: I understand they have a good reputation, also - and in fact I am currently awaiting a repro Model 1865 56-50 Spencer carbine made by Armi Sport (I am getting it from the U.S., as I am unaware of anyone carrying them in Canada, yet.)

Actually, as far as Enfield replicas go, the "old" (i.e. 20 or more years ago)made-in-the-UK Parker-Hale repro's were the best by far, but they were so pricey that P-H repros are now Italian-made also, just to compete in the market. I am fortunate to have one of the early P-H reproductions, and it is excellent.

Note that while these are .58 caliber (rather than the original .577 cal. of the originals, which the old P-H repros duplicated) I think that is pretty standard for any Enfield repro these days - it is just simpler to make all the barrels (for repro U.S. rifle muskets as well as Enfields) on the same machinery. It is only .003 difference, after all, and they certainly had no serious problem with ammunition interchangeability during the American Civil War! Also, the style of rifling and rate of twist will likely not be the same as they were on original Enfields (whereas the old P-H repros were exact duplicates) but, again, that is of little consequence unless you are a fanatic for precise historical accuracy in such a reproduction.

If you are into the "historical aspect" of such a firearm at all, a repro Enfield muzzle-loading rifle is definitely the way for you to go as a Canadian, because they were the standard-issue military longarms of the British Empire, including Canada, in their heyday. For the difference of only $10, you'd probably be best to go with the 3-band "Long Rifle", because that was the most common, historically, being the standard-issue infantry rifle. There were two different models of original Enfield 2-band "Short Rifle" - an all iron-mounted version (i.e. nosecap, trigger guard, etc.) which was issued only to Rifle Regiments, and also all Sergeants in other "foot" units - and a brass-mounted "naval" version (which is what they offer, presumably because it is easier and cheaper to produce them using the same brass components.) If you would ever like to get a suitable bayonet and other similar components for your rifle (maybe just for "show", or even because you have gotten into military re-enacting or the like) the plain triangular-bladed socket bayonet which fits the 3-band rifle is a lot more readily available (and much cheaper) - whether original or reproduction - than the special 'sword bayonet" which fits the 2-band rifle. For example, in reproduction bayonets, the standard infantry pattern for the 3-band rifle runs maybe C$60-75, but a repro sword-bayonet for the other rifle is in the C$200 range ....

Accuracy should be as you have heard - provided you do your part - and certainly accurate enough for hunting at the ranges you have mentioned. You will need black powder, caps, and bullets (using either a suitable lubricated hollow-base "Minie" bullet - or a patched round ball, which some of these rifles perform quite well with.)
 
Last edited:
Muchos Gracias Senor Grant!

You have hit the proverbial nail on the head here. I am a milsurp collector, and all of the firearms I own are of the modern type, such as Lee Enfields or Mausers. I have been thinking of getting a muzzleloader, and I thought I could kiil two birds with one stone here. I was aware that the 1853 Enfield was used by the British and Dominion troops for quite some time, in the muzzleloading format, as well as the Snider conversion. I was looking at the three band style on the Marstar website, so if I do decide to go this route, that's te one I will pick.

In terms of shooting, I figured that I would be needing the obvious, such as powder, caps and bullets, but I thought about other things as well. for example, if the charge does not go off, I can't just remove a breech plug and empty the rifle, I would need some kin of tool to pull the bulet out (not sure what it's called) and probably some other things.

Finally, I am not sure what these things weigh. I'm sure a sling wouldn't be a bad idea, as a 39 inch barell has to be fairly heavy. I would like to stay as original as possible, where would I get bayonet and sling?
 
I also have a P-H P-53 Rifle-Musket and with a bit of care I use to hit a gong at 400 yards with it. Probably could not do it now, I have trouble seeing the sights and much less the target!
 
Deano:

Sorry about that rather obvious "powder, caps, projectiles" advice! :rolleyes:
I was writing that response from my office, and didn't have access at that time to some of the images and links I needed to give a more in-depth answer regarding the accoutrements. I should have added that I intended to provide a lot more detail when I got home ... see below!

First, however, here's a "so-so" pic of my P-H repro Pattern 1853 rifle (top), with an original 3-band Snider rifle in the lower image for comparison. (Not taken together, so they are slightly different angle and scale ... but hopefully you can see just how close a copy of the original Enfield rifle - from which the Snider rifle was converted - the "early" Parker-Hale repro actually was!)
p53snidr.jpg


And here's one of the best groups I ever fired (100 yards, rested) with the Parker-Hale - I don't recall what caused the "flyer":
p53group.jpg


To give you some idea of the uniforming and accoutrements which went with these rifles, here is a "period" image of British Infantry, circa 1858-68. Note that the infantryman on the right has the three-band rifle, and the scabbard you can see peeking down below his haversack is for the standard triangular infantry bayonet. The Sergeant in the center has the two-band rifle, and his bayonet scabbard, which is again just visible on his left side, is for the sword bayonet:
infant~2.jpg


And here is a more recent representation of a Canadian Militia infantryman from the same era. Note that, despite the differences of artistic interpretation in these illustrations, the style and cut of the uniform would have been essentially the same. Many of the accoutrements - e.g. the cap pouch, waistbelt, ball bag, bayonet frog and rifle sling - were made from "buff leather", an off-white leather which regulations called for being kept whitened with pipeclay (and later "blanco") ...
10th_r~2.jpg


Reproductions of many of the accoutrements are available from a variety of sources - though be aware that many of the "Enfield" items offered by the US Civil War re-enactment "Sutlers" - especially bayonet frogs, slings and such - are not "correct" for British/Canadian use, since they are copies of either Union or Confederate items. (After the U.S. Springfield rifled musket, Enfield-pattern rifles imported by both sides were the next most numerous models used in that conflict.)

Excellent quality British-pattern items are available from "Mick" O'Dea, of "British Military Equipments" in Arizona:
accout.jpg

(Mick is actually more into shooting Sniders and such, but the accoutrements he sells are patterns which mainly date from when the Enfield muzzleloaders were in use - and were just carried over and kept in use during the Snider timeframe. He also sells a correct-style buff leather sling, not illustrated in the above picture.)
Here's his website (tell him "Grant" sent you!) - http://www.britishmilitaryequipments.com/

The bayonets and scabbards sold by the various suppliers in the U.S. are fine, however. Here is one of the repro standard triangular bayonets with scabbard:
legendaryarms_1870_17010817


And a repro sword bayonet for the 2-band rifle:
legendaryarms_1870_21875637


Here are just a few online sources of reproduction bayonets which I "Googled", at random - note that some of them also offer the significantly more expensive (e.g. US$165 before shipping) sword bayonet for the Short Rifle:

http://www.fcsutler.com/fcbayonets.asp

http://www.mercurysutler.com/bayonets.htm

http://www.blockaderunner.com/Catalog/catpg7.htm

http://www.legendaryarms.com/bayonets2.html

Hope this helps!
 
Last edited:
johnone said:
We have Spencer carbines coming in our next shipment from Armi Sport Chiappa.
Click to expand...
That's good news, John! Alas, however, it is too late for me, as mine is already paid for and, I believe, shipped.

As a matter of interest, do you have any idea what your price will be for them?
 
johnone said:
GRANT R;
We have Spencer carbines coming in our next shipment from Armi Sport Chiappa.
Regards John
Click to expand...

Would it be safe to assume John that you'll be laying in a supply of the special center-primed reproduction Snider brass that AS is making for these? You can't exactly order it from Winchester... ;)
 
56-50 brass ...

Claven2 said:
Would it be safe to assume John that you'll be laying in a supply of the special center-primed reproduction Snider brass that AS is making for these? You can't exactly order it from Winchester... ;)
Click to expand...
Yes, that would certainly be nice! If this carbine is as enjoyable as I expect (having had the chance to handle and fire examples when in the States) I'll be needing to supplement the initial supply of cartridge cases I'm getting from the US .... :D
 
Last edited:
1853 Muskets

I have eight of the Parker-Hales on my racks. Two 1861's, two 1858's, two 1853's, a Volunteer and the Witworth. The best Parker-Hale to get is the 1858 because it has progressive depth rifling. The 1861's which has progressive depth rifling has a short barrel and not verry accurate, the 1853's don't have this rifling but is a good shooter. I also have an Armi-Sport and a Euroarms in 1853, the only difference in these two are the barrel bands. The Armi Sport has the type of barrel bands that stick out a bit and aren't as smooth as the original bands. There isn't much difference in the two guns and there is an abundance of parts available from Dixie Gun Works or any Sutler in the Civil War reenacting world.
I use a Lyman mold that works great in my guns. The real trick is getting really soft led to make your rounds work.
Albayo
 
Actually, the reproduction "infantry equipments" sold by both IMA and Sportsman's Guide ("webbing" would be a misnomer, really, since they are made of leather ...) are the "Pattern 1871" and "Pattern 1888" (the latter also referred to as "Slade-Wallace") equipments, neither of which is historically correct for use with Enfield muzzle-loading rifles. The P'71 was introduced contemporaneously with adoption of the .577/.450 Martini-Henry rifle, and the P'88 came in with adoption of the .303 bolt action Lee-Metford rifle.

The black leather cartridge pouch (or "ball bag", as they were officially called) on the buff leather shoulder sling (Pattern 1854, IIRC) shown in the above picture from the "British Military Equipments" web page posted above - and/or the buff leather waistbelt and belt pouch (Pattern 1860) shown in the same picture - are the correct accessories for a P'53 or P'58 Enfield muzzle loader.

Canada, which was fully supplied with Snider-Enfield breech loading conversions as early as any part of the British Empire (1867-68, because of the Fenian Invasion scare)) then kept them in service for almost thirty years (never adopting the Martin-Henry, except for very limited issue) and thus continued equipping its troops primarily with the P'60 waistbelt and ball bag which they had previously used with their Enfield muzzle loaders (though the cap pouch was dispensed with, of course) - for example, that is what most of our troops went into the field with during the 1885 North West Rebellion campaign:
pvtcml~1.jpg
65mrr.jpg


Illustrated above are Canadian militiamen of 1885: on the left is a member of a regular Infantry battalion (who is accordingly armed with a three-band Snider-Enfield, with buff leather waistbelt and ball bag) and on the right is a member of a Rifle Battalion - in this case the 65th Mount Royal Rifles (who is thus armed with a two-band Snider rifle with correct sword bayonet, and has black leather accoutrements.)
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom