Pedersoli 1874 Sharps

ArtyMan

ArtyMan

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Hey guys,

I recently picked up an 1874 Sharps rifle by Pedersoli and have a few questions. I have a box of Federal 300gr .45-70 Gov't cartridges, which are FMJHP with a rough muzzle velocity of 1850fps. I have read the Sharps rifles take well to 405gr lead over black powder (which I plan to do), but is this ammo safe to shoot with this high a velocity?

Secondly, I have 1lb Goex 1FG powder as this is what Goex's website suggests for the .45-70, however now I am seeing a lot of mention of 2FG. What is the standard go to for a full charge behind a 405gr lead RN bullet?

Thanks!
 
I would hesitate to shoot the factory shells through the gun. They sound like leverution shells which I think are loaded fairly hot compared to the lower pressure general purpose loads. I don't consider the Sharps an exceptionally strong design although I do consider them stronger than a trapdoor.
I use 2 and 3F in my 45-70 rifles (I change my mind back and forth) Important to fill the shell with a drop tube and use a soft lead bullet with a soft lube like SPG or in my case half bear grease and half bees wax. I use enough powder that after drop filling the powder comes up to the bottom of the bullet. I also usually use a card wad between the powder and the slug to protect the base of the bullet. Milk cartons make good card wads

cheers mooncoon
 
In full agreement with Mooncoon. I wouldnt shoot those factory rounds in a 74 sharps action. Run those thru a Ruger#1 or modern Marlin 95. If in a 95 Marlin, hold on tight and grit your teeth.
 
ArtyMan said:
Hey guys,

I recently picked up an 1874 Sharps rifle by Pedersoli and have a few questions. I have a box of Federal 300gr .45-70 Gov't cartridges, which are FMJHP with a rough muzzle velocity of 1850fps. I have read the Sharps rifles take well to 405gr lead over black powder (which I plan to do), but is this ammo safe to shoot with this high a velocity?

Secondly, I have 1lb Goex 1FG powder as this is what Goex's website suggests for the .45-70, however now I am seeing a lot of mention of 2FG. What is the standard go to for a full charge behind a 405gr lead RN bullet?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

The usual ammunition .45-70Gov ammunition packaging we see over here is clearly marked 'For Ruger No1 or similar MODERN Nitro-proofed action firearms only - NOT for reproduction firearm such as Sharps, Remington Rolling Block, Springfield Model of 1873 [Trapdoor models]'.

For your Sharps you should be thinking about a 405-500gr LEAD bullet at around 1300-1400 fps - a reasonable replication of the original cartridge load in todays litiginous market. There is a 300gr/BP load made for the Trapdoor carbine, too, that you might like to try sometime.

tac
 
I've had decent luck with 62 gr of 2f goex a cereal box wad and a 405 gr bullet I use a little bit of cornmeal to take up any space in the case
 
htt p://www.bpcr.net/site_docs-results_schedules/documents/pedersoli_proof_rules_and_allowable_limits_09-04.htm

The modern replica Sharps, Rolling Block and Trapdoor models we produce are stronger than their original versions due in part to improved steels as well as minor changes made to strengthen original design weakness and add some discrete safety features. Although it is unpleasant to shoot maximum pressure loadings, we do permit the use of ammunition which does not exceed 29007 psi or CUP in these BP Ctg Rifles, regardless of their caliber. This allowable maximum pressure may be obtained using either black powder or smokeless powder loadings.

...

We are aware that there is smokeless powder 45-70 cal. commercial ammunition being sold which advertises pressures of 40,000 psi and we advise against use of this type ammunition. The large capacity thinwall brass cases are not designed to handle such excessive pressures and will have a very short reloadable life and may burst when fired at such high psi. For "ALL" large case black powder calibers, the best accuracy is obtained by the use of carefully developed loads using blackpowder and cast lead bullets in a bullet length suitable for the barrel twist of your rifle.

For Davide Pedersoli & Co.

#### Trenk
Competition Events Coordinator
Click to expand...
 
I put a box of Remington .45-70 smokeless through my Pedersoli 1874 Sharps without a problem.
The web site (http://www.bpcr.net/ ) is a good place to start for information on your Sharps.
I would also recommend, “Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West”, by Mike Venturino.
A friend has very good accuracy with 60 grains of GOEX FFg, behind the Lee 405 grain bullet.
 
Those Federal 300gr rounds meet SAMMI specs. You can shoot them in a Pedersoli 1874 with no problems. It won't be nearly as fun as shooting black powder but they will be safe.

Chris.
 
Shiloh warrants their rifles with any factory smokeless ammo. With reloads, you're on your own.

I shoot both smokeless and BP in my Shilohs, as do my buddies with Pedersoli and Uberti single shots, but we load to BP equivalent. Diehards attempt to turn a 45-70 into a sub-.458 Winchester and I wish them well. They think it's macho to beat themselves up, like the guys who think you need a .338 to drop a moose. The last two moose I shot fell to lead 45-70 BP equivalent smokeless loads and two 400 lb+ black bears and a Mule Deer fell to lead BP 50-70 loads.
 
gunlaker said:
Those Federal 300gr rounds meet SAMMI specs. You can shoot them in a Pedersoli 1874 with no problems. It won't be nearly as fun as shooting black powder but they will be safe. .
Click to expand...

What are the SAAMI specs for 45-70 and more particularly how are they phrased. You will note in the quote from Pedersoli that some shells are loaded to 40,000 psi while I suspect the 400 grain bullets are loaded to somewhere in the 20 - 30,000 psi range and intended for old weaker actions.
quote above is something like saying it is safe to drop a 500 nitro express shell in a gun intended for 500 black powder express because the nitro shells are loaded to SAAMI specs

cheers mooncoon
 
I'm just saying that the Federal 300gr ammuntion is loaded to SAMMI specs for the .45-70 and is safe for any non-antique .45-70. The Pedersoli rifles are rated to slightly higher pressures than the SAMMI numbers for .45-70.

You can buy commercial ammunition that exceeds the SAMMI spec for .45-70, for instance Buffalo Bore and Garrett cartridges, but not Federal. I wouldn't shoot those hotter rounds in the Pedersoli. Mind you I'm a black powder guy and don't shoot much smokeless so I'd be unlikely to shoot any of that stuff through a Pedersoli anyway as I don't think it's much fun :)

Chris.
 
Thanks for the excellent info! I will be loading black powder, just wanted to know if the stuff I had in hand was good to go for a quick shoot Sunday. So the FG stuff GOEX reccommended that I picked up is no good?
 
I have owned 3 different Pedersoli Sharps rifles in .45/70. I use 55 gr. of FFFG, place a lubed wool Wonder Wad over the powder, and seat a 405 gr. cast bullet into the case. Do not leave space between the powder and the bullet.....my loads are compressed when I seat the bullet..............I get probably 1150 FPS and good accuracy..............
 
The Fg won't hurt. I use it in a number of cartridges, even as small as .32-40, but most folks use a finer granulation. Most of the time I do too :). But I'll bet you can find an accurate load with it.

Chris.
 
Get a real bullet on top of the powder, 500 grains or more.

The government roundnose has always been pretty forgiving to try out. you can try some of the other styles later.
 
gunlaker said:
I'm just saying that the Federal 300gr ammuntion is loaded to SAMMI specs for the .45-70 and is safe for any non-antique .45-70. The Pedersoli rifles are rated to slightly higher pressures than the SAMMI numbers for .45-70. .
Click to expand...

I think you need to do a bit of a rethink on that. A modern made trapdoor Springfield still has the weak design features of the original. New materials might make it slightly stronger but it is still not a Ruger # 1 in strength. Up until recently all 45-70 shells were loaded to be safe in the lowest common denonminator and I strongly believe these new shells were desgined for guns like the Marlin levorution and for Ruger #1s and so forth. I also suspect that the Pedersoli Sharps may be made of mild steel case hardened and certainly many of the Italian muzzle loaders are made that way. I had an Italian Sharps for a while and the lever pivot pin in it was soft because the case hardening had worn through. Bottom line is that I don't consider the 1874 Sharps to be nearly as strong as a Ruger regardless of the metal it is made from. I don't doubt that you can get away with firing some hot shells in it but as a steady diet I think the gun will fail in some way

cheers mooncoon
 
Somewhere on the web there is a post about rebarreling an original Springfield Trapdoor for modern cartridges.
The experimenters kept upping the powder of the smokeless cartridges looking for one that would destroy the action.
The last cartridge, a .300 H&H Magnum, did not destroy or blow open the action, but the barrel was blown out of the action.
Search under
http://www.trapdoorcollector.com/cgi-bin/afrasca/bulletin/config.pl?read=16184
 
sail32 said:
Somewhere on the web there is a post about rebarreling an original Springfield Trapdoor for modern cartridges.
The experimenters kept upping the powder of the smokeless cartridges looking for one that would destroy the action.
The last cartridge, a .300 H&H Magnum, did not destroy or blow open the action, but the barrel was blown out of the action.
Click to expand...

That sounds awesome. My dream of having a trapdoor howdah pistol that shoots something other than 45-70 is possible!
 
mooncoon said:
I think you need to do a bit of a rethink on that. A modern made trapdoor Springfield still has the weak design features of the original. New materials might make it slightly stronger but it is still not a Ruger # 1 in strength. Up until recently all 45-70 shells were loaded to be safe in the lowest common denonminator and I strongly believe these new shells were desgined for guns like the Marlin levorution and for Ruger #1s and so forth. I also suspect that the Pedersoli Sharps may be made of mild steel case hardened and certainly many of the Italian muzzle loaders are made that way. I had an Italian Sharps for a while and the lever pivot pin in it was soft because the case hardening had worn through. Bottom line is that I don't consider the 1874 Sharps to be nearly as strong as a Ruger regardless of the metal it is made from. I don't doubt that you can get away with firing some hot shells in it but as a steady diet I think the gun will fail in some way

cheers mooncoon
Click to expand...

What moon said...
You did not buy the sharps to shoot 1700fps lite for caliber jacketed bullets I hope???
For that get a marlin, or an ruger # 1.
 
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