Pedersoli Model 1874 Quigley Sharps

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Hi Guys,

I'm seriously considering purchasing a Pedersoli Quigley Sharps early in the new year. I'm wondering what caliber to go with. Obviously the .45-70 Gov't is the most accessible round, brass, etc...is commonly available and it is a pretty useful all-around cartridge.

Then we have the .45-90, .45-110 & .45-120, all of which are comparatively more difficult to source brass for and are more "uncomfortable" to shoot. I'd appreciate it if anyone would like to chime in on these calibers, as all three are relatively foreign to me.

I know the .45-70 isn't "authentic" to the movie, but I'm not wedded to 100% authenticity, if I were, I'd be looking at a Shiloh Sharps instead!:) Basically I'm looking for a rilfe that will not only be used to punch paper, but also to use as a legitimate big game rifle. I hope to use it on Black Bear and Moose next Fall. I realize that the rifle isn't a light weight, but in this case the point is relatively moot, as I'll be doing more fixed hunting, rather than a great deal of walking/stalking due to the area I plan on hunting.

I read a copy of Gun Tests from back in 2000 that reated the Pedersoli very highly given its price. Anyone owning one, I'd sure appreciate your thoughts as well!:)

From Marstar's web site, I noticed that "Sharps Quigley Sporting" chambered in .45-120 was out of stock, however, the "Sharps N.R.A. Quigley" in .45-90 was IN Stock. I could not find a .45-70 Quigley listed on the site. I checked with the Davide Pedersoli site and they only list this "Quigley" model:

S.789 1874 Sharps Quigley Sporting



Is the .45-70 Quigley a special order item for Marstar? What about the different descriptions Marstar used vs. what the Pedersoli site shows? I'd definitely be picking up the optional tang Creedmore site, like the one "Quigley" used in the movie. Any thoughts, opinions on these? I read that some guys were disatisfied with the Pedersoli Creedmores and recommended a different manufacturer. Any thoughts?

I also noticed from the Pedersoli site that the Quigley Sharps, In addition to the .45" calibers I've already discussed, is also available in .50-70 & .50-90 Anyone shooting these?:)

Again, please feel free to chime in!
 
Go with a .45-70 - far easier to get ammo/components and plenty of long-distance ability. You'll probably find that recoil will be your limiting factor when it comes to the power that the .45-70 can generate.
 
From a long time BPCR shooter I can offer this.....if you plan on using smokeless in it at all, go with the 45/70 no question.....if you are going to use only black powder and do some long range target shooting and hunting then the 45/90 or 45/100/110 would be a good choice, if you are going to use black powder only and only use it for hunting big game and are not afraid of recoil then the 50/90(Poison Slinger) is a top choice. Period correct bullets, lube, wads , etc. avail. from M T Chambers Supply.
 
Personally I own a Pedersoli Quigley Sharps in 45-120 Sharps caliber, it is simply fun to shoot. It is an urban legend that this caliber does recoil like a mule, the gun weighting alone 13 ¼ lbs. It may be a little difficult to reload for newcomers but carefull load assembly give surprising results. 45-70 would be more user freindly. Matthew Quigley used a 45-110 Sharps caliber in the movie "Quigley Down Under", a caliber a little easyer to load. If you want to shoot BPCR matches you should buy something in 40-90. For my 45-120 Sharps I load 75gr. in weight or 110 gr. volume of Triple 7 behind a 535 gr. Lyman Postell. Track of th Wolf do have almost all BPCR brass. Oh yes, you will need a blow tube for either Triple 7, Pyrodex or black powder and a LOT of lube for 32" + barrels. You can also try Shooter's Choice for Pedersoli repro's, they do have the Quigley 45-70 in inventory. http://www.shooterschoice.com/pedersoli/pedersoli.htm

SharpsDroit.jpg
 
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Thanks for the replies guys, and please keep them coming! :) I haven't really made up my mind as of yet. Smokeless powder is far easier to obtain locally than black powder and/or its substitues, which I'd almost 100% certain have to mail-order. I already shoot and reload for the .45-70 Govt so there would be no extra cost associated with gearing up for this caliber. I've been casting my own bullets for years, so that also isn't an issue.

However, there is the attraction of shooting/owning one of the more esoteric, yet traditional "Buffalo" guns... I'm not recoil sensitive and have no problem shooting the .300 RUM or .458 Win Mag accurately, so I wouldn't imagine the larger case volume .45s would be that much more pounding...

On a seperate, but related topic, what kind of accuracy are you guys getting from your Pedersoli's? IIRC, those used in the Gun Tests review, were shooting 1.5" -1.25" groups at 100 yards.
 
I used to own a Shilo 45-120 and currently own an original Sharps in 50-70 (sleeved). My target rifle is a rolling block 38-56 and I may switch to a 40-70. Having said all that, my choice of your options would be a 45-70 --- no hesitation. The 45-120 has a really sharp uncomfortable recoil; not so much a tremendous shove as a sharp uncomfortable punch.
All of the black powder cartridges have rainbow trajectories and successful target shooting with them involves learning your sight settings. Bullets over 300 grains seem to have enough punch to knock down rams out to 500 meters so go for the one with brass easily and cheaply available and which is the most comfortable to shoot.

cheers mooncoon
 
I'd personally go with the authentic 45-110 then. If you're recoil tolerant and not a competition shooter, then this would certainly be an intriguing cartridge. Loaded with smokeless to 30-30 pressure levels (check to see this is safe in the Pedersoli), this could hold its own against the 458 (the 45-110 holds 96gr water vs 87 for the 458). Brass would be difficult to source, but I expect you could use 45-70 dies for sizing & seating (partial sizing only of course).

And I don't know where the recoil myth came from, loaded with BP I can't see this being too terribly harsh - I've fired 100gr BP loads from muzzle loaders and those were downright tame
 
I had a Pedersoli Sharps 45-70 in the S782 model :dancingbanana:
It's an excellent rifle to shoot, loved that rifle.Wouldn't hesitate to buy another BPCR Pedersoli
S_782.jpg


Cheers nessy.
 
I occasionally shoot a 5 guage rifle with a 1200 gr round ball and 230 gr of 1F powder. It gives a tremendous shove but is not painful. My 45-120 when I shot it gave less shove but was uncomfortable. The 5 guage weighs 14 lbs, the sharps around 12 lbs as I recall.

cheers mooncoon
 
On the subject of recoil, you may want to take a closer look at the military style curved buttplate of the "Quigley" rifle.

I had a Pedersoli in 45-70 with the same profile (like this one) and I found it was on the uncomfortable side (plenty accurate, though :) ) .
S780.jpg


Following up on my experience with the military buttplate on the Pedersoli and the "shotgun" buttstock on the Browning 1885 led me to order a Shiloh Sharps with a "shotgun" style buttstock. It is simply a superior design for dissipating the recoil (as opposed to focussing it on your shoulder).

Check out the Shiloh Number 1 Sporter rifle:
sporter11874.jpg


Bigger, flatter area in the buttstock = more pleasant to shoot.
 
i have owned three of the big calibers,1-50/140, 2- 45/120,one which i bought from mooncoon, take it from our experience they really kick, they are a lot harder to make shoot, dont be fooled by the horsepower that you dont need , the 50-140 i shot twice and sent it to shiloh to be rebarreled to 45/70 ,
 
Thanks for all the replies so far guys! Some good stuff there! I'm now leaning toward the .45/70...just seems to make more sense, as I anticipate shooting far more smokeless powder out of it than BP, plus the cost of brass, etc...makes it that much more attractive.

I also plan on going with a tang mounted vernier peep sight. I was wondering what you guys are using? I'd like to get as close to the Vernier sight used in the Selleck movie. IIRC that one was made by The Riflesmith of Sheridan, Montana for Shiloh; while Shiloh's No. 111 globe front sight was also fitted according to Mike Venturino.




#111 SHILOH GLOBE FRONT SIGHT
110sight.jpg



With Aperture Insert.
$80.00ea.

The two I checked out on the Pedersoli web site were the USA454 Long Creedmoor sight adjustable for elevation & the USA406 Soule Type Long range Creedmoor (4"). The former runs about $100.00 and the latter about $240.00

USA 454



USA 406


According to the Shiloh web site, their current Quigley model has their Midrange Vernier Tang Sight with 109A Aperture Card. Price is $316.00 US

Is the Shiloh sight worth that much more? How does the Pedersoli compare? Are there any other options available? Any input would be most welcome!:)


MVA_tang3.jpg
 
Your choice of sight probably depends on what you are going to do with the gun; the more you intend to shoot long range (over 300 yds) competitively, the more you will want the expensive sight. I personally use a Lyman 17A in front with a square topped post and an Italian $40 ladder on the tang because I don't want to spend 3 or 4 hundred for sights. I use the square post forward because I have no lateral adjustment and would not adjust vertically during a 6 minute opening. A highly competitive shooter would use an aperature forward and have click stops on the rear so that they can adjust up or down one or two clicks if necessary.
What is important in my experience is having several sizes of rear aperatures. The one which comes on the sights are often too small for anything but very bright sunlight.
Finally you need to get a copy of Paul Mathews' "the Paper Jacket" because loading technique is at least 1/2 of the accuracy question and if you have not shot BP cartridges before, it is a whole new learning experience

cheers mooncoon
 
For getting on target you can start with these adjustements on http://www.longrangebpcr.com/Settings.htm


Begin By Determining Your 100-Yard Sight Setting

Sight settings for 100 yards.

Once that number has been determined, I simply add 105 minutes of elevation to arrive at my preliminary 800 yard setting (i.e. 100 yard setting is 33 / add 105 minutes = 138).

Then, by adding 25 minutes to the 800 yard setting, I arrive at a 900 yard setting (138 + 25 = 163). Adding another 25 minutes to my 900 yard setting brings me to my 1,000 yard setting (163 + 25 = 188).

For your information, I shoot a Browning Creedmore .45-90 with a Paul Jones Creedmoor Long Range 543 grain bullet propelled by 90 grains of Swiss 1 1/2 powder at about 1,300 feet per second.
 
i use the standard shiloh sights, the post and globe you already have pictured then i usethe barrel sporting open sight to 100yds in combination with the short staff venier set for 200 yds max distance thats what i use for hunting, i change the venier staff for the longer mid range staff with the post and globe pictured to shoot blackpowder siouhetes, ,i use a 420 flatnose and 75 grs 2ffg , to hunt, and 75grs 2ffg with a 535 potell bullet for steel targets,
 
I bought the Russian copy of the Soule , vernier tang with micro adj, on the staff, means you don't have to get out of position to adj.The Hadley eye cup is well worth the extra money if you plan on shooting paper :D
Cheers nessy.
 
I would say initially, the rifle will be used primarily for informal target shooting at 200M and for big game hunting (Moose, caribou and Black Bear) probably out to as far as 300-350M. I ordinarily like to get as close as possible and most hunting shots are typically under 100M. I'll be using shooting sticks as well. Given that, what's your best recommendations? :)
 
X-man said:
I would say initially, the rifle will be used primarily for informal target shooting at 200M and for big game hunting (Moose, caribou and Black Bear) probably out to as far as 300-350M. I ordinarily like to get as close as possible and most hunting shots are typically under 100M. I'll be using shooting sticks as well. Given that, what's your best recommendations? :)
Click to expand...

Something like this: (It's a C-Sharps, model 1875) :)
IMG_2071.jpg
 
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