Perhaps too much negativity placed on guns using MIM parts?

Nub8

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Are some of us putting too much emphasis or bias against guns using MIM parts? Is it "nerdom"? I mean many buy "factory made" guns that are full of MIM parts. Have had no troubles. No parts failing on them. Guns that out lasted their shooting "career" (recreational, competitor, duty/military). Didn't modify their guns. Kept them clean/lubed. Had flawless operation for the life of their guns.

There's tons of happy Colt 1911 owners. Sig. etc. With the odd exceptions where a gun might have been overlooked in QC...does happen...S&W 1911's...lots of MIM parts...
 
It's just a cheaper way to produce parts, they do look "cheaper" as well. Probably adequate for most people, it boils down to personal preference. I'd rather have milled steel then cast/mim, it looks better and I know I'm getting my money's worth out of it.
 
MIM is pretty good if done right. I don't think I would say failure rate on parts is any higher or lower. My biggest beef is that most MIM doesn't take well to purposeful smoothing and filing.
 
It depends.

Like every other material and method out there, some is high quality and used appropriately while some is not.
 
The expectations of gun owners are ridiculously high. We have been spoiled by two plus centuries of interchangeable parts and high quality control. Guns are the best example of durable consumer goods. One hundred year old military surplus rifles are invariably as safe as modern firearms. The exceptions are noted and studied, and only very rarely are there the equivalent of a recall order.

Case in point, when the New Zealand range authorities issued a ceasefire for every single Lee Enfield on military ranges on the grounds that there was no reliable way to evaluate safety over an unknown number of shots, it was met by howls of indignation and genuine discussions of what constitutes safe. The Kiwi authorities got roundly beaten up by people who actually did know better, but the regulators 'knew best' and refused to budge. And, people wonder why the New Zealand police haven't collected nearly as many firearms as they'd hoped.

There are tales of unsafe designs, like the Carcanos and Rosses, but these are generally disproved as false engineering reports or just plain bad luck magnified. Likewise there are tales of unbelievable strength with Arisakas, based on a scant few overly exaggerated reports. Few Cold War era recruits hadn't heard that Russian "7.62" would fit the FN C1. Balderdash, but tales persist.

Civilian makers are constantly under pressure to increase margins. I watched a video from the Savage plant and you could count the number of CNC work stations for a receiver on the fingers of one hand. Not the number of steps, but how many times a human put a work piece into a machine. That is a long ways away from the hundreds of set ups, jigs and specialized cutters used to make a Garand receiver.
 
MIM may be adequate in most circumstances - if you're happy with adequate. I'm not and would prefer that the bits in my guns are forged or machined - and I will happily pay the few extra $, that it costs.
 
It's traditionalists fooling themselves. Last year I was at the Supplier's Preshow in Vegas, this is a tradeshow held the days before SHOT so that the people who make guns can talk to their suppliers before going on to talk to their customers. The place is full of people selling barrel-grade steel bars, springs, fabrication equipment and subcontracted services. I was astonished at the number of MIM suppliers, either selling the equipment to do it or selling it as a contracted service. Clearly they see firearms as a big market for their wares, and the parts they had on display suggested that just about every gun leaving a plant these days has some MIM parts in it.

Declaring MIM a poor process because some of the early or more hasty applications of the technology were done poorly is silly, and sounds like the people who initially said the Garand would be a bad rifle because of the 7th round stoppage issue (resolved one year into production), or those who decried plastic pistols as junk they would never own.
 
It's traditionalists fooling themselves.

No, it's the ignorant fooling themselves.

Most of the people who spout off about such things normally proclaim they want "forged" parts. Ask them to explain the relative advantages/disadvantages of various blank materials, forging methods, and suitable applications and they just give you a blank stare. The same people often turn up their nose at castings, thinking in very binary terms that forging > cast. They have no clue that modern MIM can produce parts with greater strength, durability, and consistency than the other methods for certain applications.
 
A perfect example of using MIM in the wrong place. I don't know who thought that was a good idea but they should no longer be in charge of anything important...

That guy got promoted to checking lead levels in children's toys bound for the North American market.
 
A perfect example of using MIM in the wrong place. I don't know who thought that was a good idea but they should no longer be in charge of anything important...

I have been reading similar threads for a while now, I know a lot of people claims that MIM bolts on the M305 had failed and failed. But when I proceed to inquire as to when and how they failed? The type of ammo? Reloads? How many rounds has gone through the M305? No one replies. Don't get me wrong, its not like I'm a pro M305 guy, but I have an acute interest in MIM and their reasons for failure! Also, for all the guys who claims MIM is this and that, no problem with these stmt, but I will you will provide details as to how the failure came about. If anything, it would be educational to say the least. Just my thoughts on the matter.
 
Firearms' parts have to be small, light, fast, and invariable strong. They also have to be cheap and interchangeable. They are subjected to high pressures, strong spring action and abrupt forces. These aren't long continuous motion cycles either. The consequences of failure are high. The tolerances have to be tightly controlled over a long production run, and parts also have to be easily installed. The major American makers lost consumer confidence when they changed out machined parts for so-called "pot metal" in the mid-20th Century. Hence the valuations for early Model 700s and pre-64 Winchesters.

I don't care what industry you are in, those are very demanding specifications.
 
I have been reading similar threads for a while now, I know a lot of people claims that MIM bolts on the M305 had failed and failed. But when I proceed to inquire as to when and how they failed? The type of ammo? Reloads? How many rounds has gone through the M305? No one replies.

It's difficult for me to imagine where you have been asking these questions and getting no response, since it's been a very active topic on this board, in the usual places where M14s are discussed. Most everything worth knowing is in this thread: https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...failures-in-recent-import-M-14-pattern-rifles

It has happened to numerous people, apparently mostly well before 500 rounds are fired.
 
It's just a cheaper way to produce parts, they do look "cheaper" as well. Probably adequate for most people, it boils down to personal preference. I'd rather have milled steel then cast/mim, it looks better and I know I'm getting my money's worth out of it.

Your opinion is well appreciated as always. But your "personal preferences" don't add nothing to the status quo on modern sporting pistols/revolvers/rifles or there advanced engineering.

So, imo it is a useless statement without any knowledge on the subject .
 
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