Permission vs. letter of the law, an ethics question

[bearkilr]

True enough.
In this case, though, even if what I have been saying is true, the fact that it was poached allows the CO's to seize the deer.
If coyotes had killed the deer instead, would you have considered the deer yours to do what you wanted with it, and not called the CO's?

There was a taxidermist from Manitoba advertising locally some years ago for the purchase of large antlers from hunters. This created quite a stir.
I talked to the Game Warden about this. Their policy is that once you have a license attached to an animal, they consider it to be yours as you've paid your royalties, much like with trapping. You can sell it if you wish.

I do know for a fact that following a wounded animal is no excuse for tresspass, it says so explicitly in the Wildlife Act. It would also be illegal, as a landowner, to claim ownership of someone else's deer, unless you put your tag on it.

 

[JB]

I have asked that question to a CO here in Sudbury, and was told that you definitly do need landowner permission. As to wether or not he was correct, I have no idea, but I know he thought he was correct, and would charge people accordingly. Sort of like the police charging people with what they think are firearms act infractions. Let the courts sort it out.

yes you need the land owners permission its there land but what they dont know is if they say no to you then you call the CO they have to give him permission to get the deer

 

[tjsudbury]

yes you need the land owners permission its there land but what they dont know is if they say no to you then you call the CO they have to give him permission to get the deer

CO's have no legal authority to decide ownership of a dead game animal

 

[bearkilr]

CO's have no legal authority to decide ownership of a dead game animal

They'll confiscate it until someone decides who the owner is.

 

[coreyd]

In Ontario trespassing laws apply even in the case of game that has made it's way onto the property. If you shoot something and it wanders onto private property to die you should first get permission from the landowner, and if they refuse to do so call the CO who will try to get permission to remove the game. If that doesn't work the CO can then use the laws against allowing game meat to spoil to further convince the landowner to give permission to retrieve the game.

So with all that said, you still cannot trespass in Ontario to retrieve fallen game and if the landowner gives you and the CO a hard time, the CO has to option to press charges against the landowner for allowing the game to spoil.

 

[beefman]

yes you need the land owners permission its there land but what they dont know is if they say no to you then you call the CO they have to give him permission to get the deer

Sorry, but that is wrong.

The CO might show-up to mediate the events, but they have no power to grant access to private property.

 

[cdngunner]

Finding "shot animals on your property is no different than finding road kill. If the authorities in you area require you to report it then do, buut no license is required to keep it........

 

[Jordan]

This happened to me once. I contacted the CO's and the landowner said no way are you going on my property. Nothing we could do about it. It really sucked, but the CO said we did the right thing and it is just unfortunate the landowner behaved in this manner.

 

[Mauser98]

A thread on another forum got me to thinking about a hunting access question.

Hunter A sets up his tree stand on the one wooded corner of Property A, overlooking a ridge that abuts Property B. He regularly is able to fill his tag by spotting and shooting deer from that corner of the property, but regularly has to enter Property B to recover the animal.

Is Hunter A within the letter of the law as you see it?
Is it ethical to continue to hunt in this manner?

So in effect, Hunter A is actively hunting both properties even though he doesn't have permission for one of them.

If the trespassing on property B was a 'one of' occurrence. he might be OK. But it appears he is planning on trespassing and that's not OK. It's both illegal and unethical.

 

[Levi Garrett]

Kill an animal on public or private land, and it heads over to a property that you do not have access for whatever reason, call the fish cops, they will get you in to collect your game.

 

[woodchopper]

Seen a situation a few years ago , when a really nice buck ran into a no trespass property after being shot . The landowner was sitting ontop of a hill , watching for just this moment ...stopped us from finding the buck with some very strong language before we were able to cross the property line.
20min later, I seen the landowner dragging that buck out behind his tractor.
Lazy SOB

Fish cops could have sorted this out, Landowner is in illegal possesion of a game animal charge him with poaching and then seize his tractor

I think your within your rights to shoot them from the corner of property A where you have permission to hunt but should try to wait till they are not going to run back on to the neighbor's land. Or take head/CNS shots so they don't run.

 

[AG]

So...
Some of you guys are advocating that if a landowner finds a deer on his land dead by any means it's his to keep without permit, without tag etc.
I disagree.
If that were the case, why would anyone who owns property need to buy a deer liscence/tag to hunt it?
By that reasoning, he could happen upon a deer that happened to be killed by a bullet and keep it without any paperwork stating he had permission to do so...

 

[AG]

O, I forgot, I tend to agree with those who advocate that game animals, dead or alive, belong to the queen. That's why you need a document stating that you can keep/use it for yourself. The queen is so nice to let us have some of her game animals

 

[srt4u2nv]

I was afraid of this issue because one of my best hunting spots is very close to my neighbors property 50yds or so away is the property line.

I called my local CO for advice and he said 100% you can not enter some one elses property to retrieve game unless you have verbal or written permission. He also said if the owner of the property holds a valid tag for said animal they can also claim your kill because it is on their property and if they have the proper license its with in their rights as a property owner to claim the downed animal regardless of who shot it. If the land owner does not have a valid license for said game animal and will not allow you to enter his property to retrieve the animal a CO should be called to retrive the animal under the law "you must not allow the meat of a game animal to spoil" with that law the CO may enter the property to retrieve the animal.....

 

[Pudelpointer]

As for ownership, the animal ALWAYS belongs to the crown no matter how long ago it was taken. Your tag is a permit that allows you to possess it, trade it, even sell it as long as it is not prohibited by law (as in meat), such as antlers or furs.

 

[JB]

In Ontario trespassing laws apply even in the case of game that has made it's way onto the property. If you shoot something and it wanders onto private property to die you should first get permission from the landowner, and if they refuse to do so call the CO who will try to get permission to remove the game. If that doesn't work the CO can then use the laws against allowing game meat to spoil to further convince the landowner to give permission to retrieve the game.

So with all that said, you still cannot trespass in Ontario to retrieve fallen game and if the landowner gives you and the CO a hard time, the CO has to option to press charges against the landowner for allowing the game to spoil.

 

[tjsudbury]

They'll confiscate it until someone decides who the owner is.

That they will do

 

[tjsudbury]

As for ownership, the animal ALWAYS belongs to the crown no matter how long ago it was taken. Your tag is a permit that allows you to possess it, trade it, even sell it as long as it is not prohibited by law (as in meat), such as antlers or furs.

Where is Paul Morrison when you need him? We need to get him to do a little bit of research on his matter for us, don't you think

 

[Mauser98]

As for ownership, the animal ALWAYS belongs to the crown no matter how long ago it was taken. Your tag is a permit that allows you to possess it, trade it, even sell it as long as it is not prohibited by law (as in meat), such as antlers or furs.

In BC, a hunter gains right of property IF he does everything legally under the Wildlife Act and Regs. I suspect that going on someone else's property without permission would mean that the hunter forfeits his right of property to the animal.

Property in wildlife

2 (1) Ownership in all wildlife in British Columbia is vested in the government.

(2) A person does not acquire a right of property in any wildlife except in accordance with a permit or licence issued under this Act or the Game Farm Act or as provided in subsection (3) of this section.

(3) A person who lawfully kills wildlife and complies with all applicable provisions of this Act and the regulations acquires the right of property in that wildlife.

(4) If a person by accident or for the protection of life or property kills wildlife, that wildlife, despite subsection (3), remains the property of the government.

(5) Despite anything in this Act, no right of action lies, and no right of compensation exists, against the government for death, personal injury or property damage caused by

(a) wildlife,

(a.1) controlled alien species described in paragraph (a) of the definition of "species", or

(b) an animal that escapes or is released from captivity or is abandoned

in British Columbia.

 

[KodiakHntr]

In BC, a hunter gains right of property IF he does everything legally under the Wildlife Act and Regs. I suspect that going on someone else's property without permission would mean that the hunter forfeits his right of property to the animal.

That is exactly correct....The animal is only yours as long as you are 100% legal. If you are trespassing (an illegal act) you forfeit all rights to the animal as you are committing a crime in conjunction with hunting, and it remains property of the Crown.