Perscribed Antique Rifle and Shotgun barrel lengths ??

[dingus]

OK i re read all the rules in the stickys there nothing about Barrel lengths in Rifles and Shotguns that are perscribed Antiques

So you can have a pre 1898 14 Ga Shotgun from a Prison or the mexican Polica ect or Wells fargo thats got like 14 inch barrel and thats fine ?

Even if its got a pistol grip and no Stock other than a retractable or Removbable one.
Thats OK right?



Look at them Stevens Pistol rifle things i think there called Bycycle Rifles or dog snuffing guns something like that there like Rifles with pistol stocks and removable stocks that look like there a wire frame.

 

[john@]

My understanding is if its an antique, legally its not a gun, so the length of the barrel does not matter.

 

[41 Colt]

Antique handgun barrel lengths do not matter, so I would think rifles & shotguns would be the same.

 

[dingus]

Ya i agree but is there anything about it anywhere?
Id prefer not to guess

 

[oldiron]

If it looks goofy, it should be antique.

 

[Win 38-55]

If the barrel was really short and had no buttstock, just a grip, I suppose a fellow could call it an antique handgun, but it would still be an antique. The only problem I could foresee is if a fellow had, say, a single-shot 44-40 rifle that had a 10" barrel and someone had sawed off the buttstock to leave just the grip. Then someone might call it a single shot 44-40 pistol and since the 44-40 cartridge is not a prescribed antique, then if the 'rifle' was called a 'pistol' then it would no longer be a legal antique. However, if the rifle is not chambered in a cartridge not allowed for antique pistols or antique rifles, then the barrel length is irrelevant ... it could be classified as either a rifle or a pistol and still be an antique either way.

 

[dingus]

If the barrel was really short and had no buttstock, just a grip, I suppose a fellow could call it an antique handgun, but it would still be an antique. The only problem I could foresee is if a fellow had, say, a single-shot 44-40 rifle that had a 10" barrel and someone had sawed off the buttstock to leave just the grip. Then someone might call it a single shot 44-40 pistol and since the 44-40 cartridge is not a prescribed antique, then if the 'rifle' was called a 'pistol' then it would no longer be a legal antique. However, if the rifle is not chambered in a cartridge not allowed for antique pistols or antique rifles, then the barrel length is irrelevant ... it could be classified as either a rifle or a pistol and still be an antique either way.

This is my Thinking as well just from weird stuff i have seen over the years.
14 Ga shotgun is not on the list.

Theres a Fellow in the USA makes 14 Ga shotgun shells from solid brass bar stock with the proper head stamp.
There Expensive like $40 for 20 but 20 will last a long time if ya dont crimp them.
theres other ways to hold in the shot a wad with fairly hard bullet lube melted and poured in for the last 1/8 should work.

 

[Smokepole]

I brought in a sawed off double percussion shotgun with 14" barrels without a problem at Customs.

 

[dingus]

I brought in a sawed off double percussion shotgun with 14" barrels without a problem at Customs.

Good to Know I have imported a Trapdoor single shot pistol in 45 70 that coulda been orignal or made from a Rifle. it was very old looking and know way to tell but CFC were OK with that it had like a 8 inch or 6 inch barrel.

The thing was EX but masive it could shoot a tight group at 25 Yds with mild 45 70 loads.
It was fun to shoot and woulda been great for dispatching Bison ect on horse back in the 1800s.

 

[mooncoon]

So you can have a pre 1898 14 Ga Shotgun from a Prison or the mexican Polica ect or Wells fargo thats got like 14 inch barrel and thats fine ?

Even if its got a pistol grip and no Stock other than a retractable or Removbable one.
Thats OK right?

I think that if a cop or CO was going to hassle you about carrying a antique handgun, they are also likely to hassle you about carrying an excessively short barreled long gun. To a large extent it is not what the law says but what the individual thinks that you have to concern yourself with. I also think that if you made a handgun from a modified long gun, if would be considered to be a new gun so that it is important to be able to establish that things like trapdoor pistols and martini pistols were modified prior to 1898.
Things like Stevens bicycle guns and so forth fall under the category of whether or not they were designed to be shot with one hand even though they might have provision for being shot from the shoulder. Ironically this might be a good thing in some cases because an antique handgun can be any caliber other than the relatively few cartridges on the no go list. Rifles on the other hand must be over .34 caliber.
The bottom line is that while it might be legal to possess and carry an extremely shortened antique long arm, I suspect would want a generous legal defense fund for the probable court costs.
Almost forgot; 12 guage shotguns can be modified by bushing the chamber to take the 14 guage Greener police shells but they have an extremely open pattern. The shells can be made from 12 guage Winchester AA shells (only) using a warm die. I heated my die in boiling water and found that on field grade shells, the plastic was too soft and they collapsed. The AA shells did not. I gave up on the project because the pattern was so open to be useless for skeet shooting and similar.

cheers mooncoon

 

[dingus]

True Enough theres always the chance of getting a #### but that goes with anything theses days.
Like being Polish and lost in a B.C Airport dont sound like it would be such a bad thing eh.

I was looking and you can Buy Legally a brand new Shotgun with a very short 14 inch barrel its non restricted and they sell them in Sporting good stores in B.C.

So chargeing someone (saying its Ilegal to own and use) a 14 inch barreled Antique Rifle or shotgun with a folding or Slideing Stock WITH a RCMP antique letter might look a tad foolish.
Like Smokepoles sawed off DB percussion shotgun.
tho im sure it could happen would be less likely than a Antique handgun would be my guess.

Also my asking is two fold if you can only legally discharge a shotgun in the area you happen to walk your dogs and a Situation happened where Defence was nessasary a 14 Ga shotgun would be a legal firearm to discharge

A 45 Schofield or 455 Webley would not.


I was really trying to get something in Writeing on the laws or something About Barrel lengths and Antiques but it just does not Exist.

And i say this is Good.

 

[mooncoon]

I was looking and you can Buy Legally a brand new Shotgun with a very short 14 inch barrel its non restricted and they sell them in Sporting good stores in B.C.

So chargeing someone (saying its Ilegal to own and use) a 14 inch barreled Antique Rifle or shotgun with a folding or Slideing Stock WITH a RCMP antique letter might look a tad foolish.

Also my asking is two fold if you can only legally discharge a shotgun in the area you happen to walk your dogs and a Situation happened where Defence was nessasary a 14 Ga shotgun would be a legal firearm to discharge

That nothing is in writing is a mixed blessing because it leaves the door open for individual interpretation by the LEO. Even though the court might find you innocent, you still end up multi dollars out of pocket proving your innocence.
The problem with the legal 14" barrel analogy is that the gun including the barrel has to be made that way to be legal; a longer barreled gun cut back or with a short barrel installed is illegal.
finally is the shotgun discharge a hunting reg or a shooting reg?

cheers mooncoon

 

[DEZ]

Buy A antique Howda like mine 64 cal smooth bore

[/IMG]

 

[dingus]

That nothing is in writing is a mixed blessing because it leaves the door open for individual interpretation by the LEO. Even though the court might find you innocent, you still end up multi dollars out of pocket proving your innocence.
The problem with the legal 14" barrel analogy is that the gun including the barrel has to be made that way to be legal; a longer barreled gun cut back or with a short barrel installed is illegal.
finally is the shotgun discharge a hunting reg or a shooting reg?

cheers mooncoon

Not sure on the way the Regs writen but you can hunt with a shotgun around here thats all i know.
My 870 folds up pretty good with the wire folding Copstock and can handle the Recoil of anything even slugs with the recoil reduceing stock.

I will just use it as i KNOW its legal and they cant do Squat about it.

Whats a Couple more inchs of barrel to pack around anyway.


Tho Dezs is very cool.
Ya can load that one Either way.

 

[tactical870]

Everything I've ever read refers to the reciever or action being the part the CFC is concerned with. As long as the action is built before 1898 and the caliber conforms to antique regs then I woudn't be concerned. After all, antique status means it's NOT a firearm. Anyone got a cheap, worth cutting up, muzzleloading shotgun for sale? (I need a 12" hand cannon something bad.....)

 

[mooncoon]

Everything I've ever read refers to the reciever or action being the part the CFC is concerned with. As long as the action is built before 1898 and the caliber conforms to antique regs then I woudn't be concerned

If you were caught carrying it in the bush, I think you would be skating on very thin ice. Combine that with questionable knowledge of the fine points of firearms law by the lower courts, I think you would be looking at lots of legal expenses. Something like the howdah pistol above was obviously made as a pistol but unless you are both very knowledgeable and skilled, most cut down shotguns are going to look like just that.
Bottom line is that it would be questionably legal and highly likely to be challenged in court by the police.

cheers mooncoon

 

[dingus]

If you were caught carrying it in the bush, I think you would be skating on very thin ice. Combine that with questionable knowledge of the fine points of firearms law by the lower courts, I think you would be looking at lots of legal expenses. Something like the howdah pistol above was obviously made as a pistol but unless you are both very knowledgeable and skilled, most cut down shotguns are going to look like just that.
Bottom line is that it would be questionably legal and highly likely to be challenged in court by the police.

cheers mooncoon

While i agree it COULD be a problem Mooncoon!
I think if you had to discharge a gun to defend yourselves or dogs from Wolves or Cougars.
The fact no 1 it was a Shotgun in a shotgun only discharge area would help.
And theres plenty of Wellsfargo guns around with short barrels.

If cops were called cause some greenee was crying over a dead wolf you had to shoot (same person would step over your dead riped apart dog to not get blood on there new running shoes)
I think you would be ahead of the game with a shotgun even if it had a 12 ich barrel and folding stock was a compact shotgun.
Theses things existed in the 1800s and you can hunt or target shoot with your smooth bore muzzel loaders so if i have a 24 Ga shotgun with a folding stock and 12 to 14 inch barrel im good to go.
I know where theres such a beast used in in NM (not sure on the Exact caliber yet)
I will let ya know if theres any Trobles getting it! me thinks not!

I think still i would not be waveing it about. i will even get the CFC to put the barrel length on my letter

I agree just sawing off a Barrel with a hack saw in your basement is a Bad idea.
Finding something made in the 1800s with a short barrel like a Wellsfargo gun or shotgun is Fine!

 

[cantom]

Everything I've ever read refers to the reciever or action being the part the CFC is concerned with. As long as the action is built before 1898 and the caliber conforms to antique regs then I woudn't be concerned. After all, antique status means it's NOT a firearm. Anyone got a cheap, worth cutting up, muzzleloading shotgun for sale? (I need a 12" hand cannon something bad.....)

Beware...not a good plan at all.

Let's not kill the Golden Goose.

 

[tactical870]

I'm not trying to ruin it for anyone here but antiques are NOT firearms. The CFC makes that very clear. I'm not advocating we should all be wandering the woods with a sawed off 12 guage but for all intensive purposes it is legal. I personally carry a printed off copy of the CFC fact sheet on antique firearms when I take them anywhere outside of my residence.

 

[762mm]

I'm not trying to ruin it for anyone here but antiques are NOT firearms. The CFC makes that very clear. I'm not advocating we should all be wandering the woods with a sawed off 12 guage but for all intensive purposes it is legal. I personally carry a printed off copy of the CFC fact sheet on antique firearms when I take them anywhere outside of my residence.

If your letter is anything like my letter for my antique, then it reads near the bottom that, despite them not being considered as firearms, the other rules still apply to 'prevent accidents' (storage, transport & display rules).

The only thing they're really exempt from is licensing and registration. Kind of odd if you ask me, as they recognize them being able to fire & do harm (accidents); yet there's no provision for having to be licensed for them (by the same logic, modern firearms shouldn't require licensing either).

Anywho, if you carry that letter around, make sure you read it first, as you could have a bad surprise one day. Sure, you don't need to carry the license and registration certificates with it... but if you get caught with careless storage, careless use, etc... you'll still have to face the same music as for any other restricted/non-restricted firearm (except for anything related to licensing and registration, of course).