Don't get me wrong, if and when I can find designated-for-hunting shells I'll use them but with the current shortages I'm dissatisfied with the supply of 20 G hunting ammo in town right now and I'm thinking that lead shot shells designated for skeet and trap are going to perform perfectly well in the field, and I mean in the shot sizes I like, ie, 71/2 and 8. Note that I'm not talking about shooting club stuff while duck or goose hunting, just for wing shooting the small and tasty game birds in this area, which is to say grouse, snipe, and woodcock. When I can find them.
Persuade me that I can't use target shells for upland hunting
- Thread starter Big Bad
- Start date
redbirddog
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Maple Syrup land Ontario
Here is something you can try, and you can decide.
Place some card board out at 10 20 and 30 yards.
Shoot some of the skeet/target shells and see how they pattern. So far so good.
Now pick up the 30 yard cardboard and shake it. listen for all the shot that is loose and trapped in in-between the card board. The 10 and 20 will be shot through, but the 30 yard in my opinion/experience will hold about half the shot. if it will not go through cardboard, how will it drop a bird ethically from the sky or a bunny on the run.
Target loads are affordable to shoot and for ok for small game and birds close up. But if you are taking out flying birds out past 20 yards, have some hotter game loads. That extra 200+ fps is important at that distance.
Try the cardboard exercise. I do it with every brand I shoot to check patterns and performance.
Place some card board out at 10 20 and 30 yards.
Shoot some of the skeet/target shells and see how they pattern. So far so good.
Now pick up the 30 yard cardboard and shake it. listen for all the shot that is loose and trapped in in-between the card board. The 10 and 20 will be shot through, but the 30 yard in my opinion/experience will hold about half the shot. if it will not go through cardboard, how will it drop a bird ethically from the sky or a bunny on the run.
Target loads are affordable to shoot and for ok for small game and birds close up. But if you are taking out flying birds out past 20 yards, have some hotter game loads. That extra 200+ fps is important at that distance.
Try the cardboard exercise. I do it with every brand I shoot to check patterns and performance.
- Location
- Saskatchewan
If you're not required to use non-toxic loads, I think good quality lead shot target loads are fine choice. Contrary to popular opinion and marketing, there is no practical advantage to very high speed lead shot loads for efficiently killing small birds in the uplands. There is always a trade off with more velocity and heavy payloads, and the target shooting community has figured out what works best with repeatable results. The main difference between good target loads and most hunting loads is the quality of the shot. Best quality target loads are almost always a better choice for hunting small birds because they use the best quality ( hard) lead shot and produce the most uniform patterns.
The currently fashionable cheap hunting loads loaded with soft shot at high velocity are the worst choice - pattern poorly, recoil more. Soft shot loaded to high velocity usually patterns poorly because of deformed shot and "blown" holes in the patterns. Cheap target loads are also loaded with cheap, soft shot, but at least most are at a sensible velocity so still pattern reasonably OK and don't beat up the shooter with excessive recoil.
If you really want the best, choose something like ( for example) Federal Gold medal, Winchester AA or Remington STS, loaded at no more than 1250 fps. You will bring home the birds.
Snipe are definitely defined as migratory birds, and hunting them requires the use of non-toxic shot Canada wide. You'd have to check your regs in your province about Woodcock, but I suspect they are also considered migratory and Federally regulated.
In comparison, steel hunting loads actually benefit from speed. Steel pellets don't deform under firing pressure and their light weight can be somewhat compensated for with more velocity. But it's hard to make general recommendations for steel upland loads. You will need to pattern your gun to find out what works best for you with steel.
The currently fashionable cheap hunting loads loaded with soft shot at high velocity are the worst choice - pattern poorly, recoil more. Soft shot loaded to high velocity usually patterns poorly because of deformed shot and "blown" holes in the patterns. Cheap target loads are also loaded with cheap, soft shot, but at least most are at a sensible velocity so still pattern reasonably OK and don't beat up the shooter with excessive recoil.
If you really want the best, choose something like ( for example) Federal Gold medal, Winchester AA or Remington STS, loaded at no more than 1250 fps. You will bring home the birds.
Snipe are definitely defined as migratory birds, and hunting them requires the use of non-toxic shot Canada wide. You'd have to check your regs in your province about Woodcock, but I suspect they are also considered migratory and Federally regulated.
In comparison, steel hunting loads actually benefit from speed. Steel pellets don't deform under firing pressure and their light weight can be somewhat compensated for with more velocity. But it's hard to make general recommendations for steel upland loads. You will need to pattern your gun to find out what works best for you with steel.
GREAT Correct INFO ! jmo RJ
BigBore585
CGN Regular
- Location
- Southern Alberta
I have used lead target shot for hunting grouse for years. Works great! But for migratory or the waterfowl I use steel as its non toxic.
Actually, demonstrably not true.
Despite the ammo companies selling the concept. Aerodynamic tests show that the greater the speed the greater the wind resistance. And that excess force gets cubed as speed rises, not squared. That's why aerodynamics are the difference in high speed cars. By the time the pellets are out 35 years, those from a 1400 fps load are pretty much going the same speed as one from a 1200 fps load.
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Canvasback is right in both posts.
I use rem gun club 7/8 oz #7.5 shot in my 20ga for pheasant and can easily fold them at 40 yards. It don't take much to kill upland birds and bunnies. Living in the crow capital of Canada 1oz #8 shot is just the ticket for evening flights and any brand of cheap target load works just fine for crow shooting inside 50 yards with a full choke and we kill hundreds each night on a half decent flyway. It doesn't need to be over thought as long as it's legal pattern your gun and hunt within your ethical limits
I use rem gun club 7/8 oz #7.5 shot in my 20ga for pheasant and can easily fold them at 40 yards. It don't take much to kill upland birds and bunnies. Living in the crow capital of Canada 1oz #8 shot is just the ticket for evening flights and any brand of cheap target load works just fine for crow shooting inside 50 yards with a full choke and we kill hundreds each night on a half decent flyway. It doesn't need to be over thought as long as it's legal pattern your gun and hunt within your ethical limits
KISS. Those target loads have ample velocity for upland hunting, all but the cheapest promo loads will have harder shot to produce better patterns which will in turn extend the effective killing range somewhat, given identical velocities and shot size. As with any shotshell, all else being equal, smaller shot will give denser patterns which will enable greater range however this smaller shot will retain less energy per pellet, takes more for a clean kill. Countering this, larger shot will retain killing energy farther but because there are fewer pellets the pattern density is more open. The shotgun is not a long range firearm and most upland game are not long range targets. Keep to a sensible maximum ethical range for the gauge/ammunition you use, if you feel you MUST have more range go to a larger gauge with heavier loads of bigger shot and tighter chokes. Be prepared for mincemeat at closer ranges with this combination, you can’t have everything at the same time unless you use a double trigger double barrelled gun with two different chokes and/ or loads for short/long range shots.
Of course. That's why in my first post I said "if the pellet size works" or words to that effect. Along with size of load, FPS, pressure and type of bird. As far as deformation goes, a lot less deformation of softer, cheaper pellets when they come flying out at 1100 to 1200 fps than when they are blasted out at 1350 to 1450 fps.
The question was are inexpensive target loads suitable to use on game. And just like tailoring your "game" loads to the gun and the quarry, if you do the same with target loads, and can hit things with a shotgun, lots of birds will fall from the sky.
Almost every bird I have dropped in the last 15 years I took with vintage SxS shotguns, many with Damascus barrels. I never use a velocity greater than 1200 fps on upland. And my 12 gauge loads are typically 7/8 to 1 oz. If I asked the gun and ammo companies "would that work, they'd all tell me "no, you need faster harder shot, you need a new semi auto, you need........" you get my point. Guys have been killing lots of birds for a very long time with light loads and modest speeds.
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Truth.
