PGW Coyote in 308 price?

Colquhoun said:
I understood the new Coyote and Timberwolf were IBI barreled and no longer came with the Kreiger. I could be wrong though??
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I heard the same as well ( second hand info ) and that the CF insisted on Krieger barrels on the issued rifles. That said the reviews on IBi barrels looks great, and I may just be stuck on Bartlein or Kreiger out of habit and name brand loyalty. One of the best shooting 308 rifles I’ve ever owned had a Gaillard tube on it.

And consider that PGW would be willing to hang their very well established reputation on whatever they let go out the door, but I do tend to stick with Krieger barrels when it comes time to put down a sizeable chunk of cash on a barrel for a project.
 
I have a PGW Coyote 308 in a folding chassis with less than 100 rounds down the barrel. First 20 being Federal GM for barrel break in. The other 68 are 168 ELD Ms with varget and 180 Accubonds, very light loads which the bolt face clearly shows. I have the fitted Pelican case with two ten shot mags,NV bridge and pic rails at 3,6,9 positions and multiple flush cups and PH bore guide. Muzzle is threaded with protector and has the PGW muzzle brake. I have a New Vortex Gen 11 Razor 4.5x27x56 moa EBR 2C in PMR mounts. Im getting older and find this gun way too heavy which sucks cuz its one of the most accurate guns Ive ever owned. I have owned many hundreds in 45 years of shooting! This is a true 1/4" gun, and its only going to get better. Its was made in 2016 and I would like a Fair price for the gun with case and all it came with. I also have 300 Lapua brass with the majority being new and 68 being fired once. 200 being Palma and the other 100 being LR Lapua. I appreciate your time and opinions. If its not worth what I think ill just keep it to play off a bench.
 
shockman said:
WOW!! I had no idea you could tell round count from looking at bolt face, I learn something new on here every day!
Popcorn please
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I see what you mean based on my wording. it was meant as an indication of using over the top hand loads that consistently pop primers. If you saw the rifle I was referring to you might agree that it was beat. I could only imagine someone running a 6.5CM that hot over a prolonged period what the barrel might be like. The price reflected the likelihood in my mind that a re barrel and bushing the bolt face would follow any purchase.

I should have said it serves as an indication of care and type of loads used.
 
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Longstud said:
I have a PGW Coyote 308 in a folding chassis with less than 100 rounds down the barrel. I appreciate your time and opinions. If its not worth what I think ill just keep it to play off a bench.
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A very similar setup just sold after being first advertised at $5500, then dropping to $4500 before it went off the market. It was a folder, low round count and in 6.5CM I believe with all the same accessories as you listed. That’s been pretty standard over the last year I’ve seen. Some of the older versions with no NV bridge and a more standard McMillan stock ( which I actually prefer but that’s just me) tend to advertise at the $3500 to $4000 range. This is w/o optics.

They are super nice rigs, as always the market dictates price. The current situation has probably hit everyone in the bank account a bit and reduced disposable income to a degree across the country.
 
Epoxy7 said:
^^^^ figured a lot of people missed the price reduction on that one since the ad was edited rather than bumped.

Your posts have in my opinion been dead on. I will mention that I think One of the other issues with price is the Cadex stuff is a direct competitor and can often be found for slightly less than the pgw. Doesn’t come with all the extras but slightly more modern design for the bolt/action including chassis and uses AICS mags. It seemed pretty clear they had PGW in their crosshairs when deigning the Cadex rifles. Both have pluses and minuses. The Cadex rifles did however provide another competitor for the PGW and there is likely a limited market of buyers for these high end rifles.

Completely agree that the current financial situation also limits the amount of buyers. Expensive luxuries are the first thing people cut in hard financial times. Alternatively they are also often the first thing many sell when times are tougher.
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If PGW doesn't modernize their product line, I think they are going to really struggle remaining relevant in the precision rifle world. While they are offering new more budget friendly options geared toward precision rifle competitions, which I think is a good start, their flagship rifles could use some modernization. In particular, their chassis has hardly any of the features that a person getting a precision rifle chassis in 2020 would come to expect from a high end offering. They seem to be stuck in the past with their old DND contract design.

I will say that Cadex does a really good job staying on top of market trends, and delivering products that are current and relevant, and what consumers want. If PGW doesn't make any changes, I can see Cadex swallowing their whole market segment.
 
Epoxy7 said:
I do generally agree with you on this, however I think they are going a different direction. The Chassis on their 50BMG is the Cadex chassis. The PGW chassis while simple has received good reviews. Simple and rugged are never bad for military precision rifles. However for large military contracts really the bolt action is being replaced and obsolete, except for 338LM and 50BMG. The US used 300WM as a stop gap but seem to be going with with 338/50. Again the PGW 50 BMG is in a Cadex chassis and knowing someone who had both side by side, the PGW in some ways was preferred, although in others the Cadex was better.

PGW has shown they are working on a semi auto 338LM the Direwolf. Which tends to follow into what I've seen with current military calibres/rifles.

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https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1937349-PGWDTI-338-Lapua-Semi-Auto-The-DIREWOLF!!!!?highlight=direwolf

With regards to the precision rifle world, it looks like they are gravitating towards being a Canadian Accuracy International military precision rifles rather than the competition precision rifle company they came from. Which is exactly how AI started as well. AI doesn't seem to have trouble selling to civilians even though you are less likely to see an AI at a competition than a dedicated custom rig. Again I suspect this is the PGW eventual business plan.

It does fit into an interesting product line and how military rifles are going. 308/6.5 is being dominated by semi auto precision rifles predominately in the AR10/AR308 design. 50BMG for accuracy is still a bolt action round as is 338LM. If they can market the Direwolf as a precision semi auto (They have stated it's as accurate as the bolt actions) in 338Lm, then that is exactly what military contracts would want. The AR10/AR308 has paved the way for semi auto in the 308/6.5 CM realm of precision military rifles. It's not a new concept for them these days.

It will be interesting to see which way they go and what they come up with.
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I've seen the direwolf, cool rifle, but honestly I think it fills more of a niche roll then anything. I see limited advantages to a semi-auto precision rifle, especially in .338LM frame or larger, except for roles like hard target interdiction (like the US coast guard and their use of M82's). Precision semi-auto rifles have been around for a long, long time, but they've always played a relatively small role in LE/MIL circles.

There's limited advantages to semi-auto's in the precision rifle world, and they are not without their downsides. While the precision can be made to closely match their bolt action counterparts, they are much harder to drive and require a greater demand of application of the fundamentals by the shooter to optimize the precision out of the system. They are much more punishing on the shooter if their fundamentals aren't 100%. On top of that, the farther you shoot, which is what .338LM is mostly used for, the more time you have between follow up shots. A shooter is going to wait until they see where their first round impacts before they send another one, and when time of flight is counted in seconds, the less and less advantage there is to a semi-auto. Semi-autos are generally heavier and filled with more parts, which makes them less tolerant of adverse conditions.

I don't see a trend of militaries and LE replacing bolt guns with semi's. The vast majority of precision rifle work in LE and MIL is being filled by bolt actions, and to my knowledge I haven't seen a big push to replace these bolt actions with semi's. Not on any sort of large scale. A snipers job is perhaps ~10% shooting, maybe even less. In my mind the disadvantages far outweigh any advantages, and I don't believe the direwolf is going to be the game changer they state it is. Maybe they have a bunch of orders by .gov all over the world, and we will start seeing them in use in conflicts everywhere, but I really doubt it

As far as AI's, they make really great rifle systems. AI does a really good job updating their rifles to meet consumer demand, they are readily updating their systems and models. While I would love to be able to compare PGW to AI, I don't think it's a fair comparison. PGW hasn't really updated their flagship rifles in the past decade, meanwhile AI has done many updates and introduced a few new rifle models in that time. I would love to see PGW do the same, but they haven't really evolved past their 2005 DND contract, they seem to be stuck in the past, relying on their past success.

PGW has a really cool heritage, being a Canadian built and made DND sniper rifle supplier. There's a lot of history there, and I would love to see PGW grow and prosper and continue with that heritage. My honest feelings are that they sat on their haunches for too long relying on their DND contract success while others around them were innovating, and any new innovations will now be too little too late. They seem reluctant to update their flagship rifles, and I really think that's going to hurt them as a business if it hasn't already. I hope I'm wrong, as having a strong precision rifle manufacturing presence in Canada benefits the consumers, and losing PGW would be a big loss.

I guess time will tell.
 
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