Pick your brains? 1908 Mosin Nagant 1891

lupothebutcher

lupothebutcher

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Howdy boys

I just picked up a new milsurp today from Prophet River (thanks Tanner) for my humble collection, I've never really been into Russians Except for my wife who is Russian and she has been bugging me to get Russian weapons from the time of the revolution; to this end, I bought a Mosin Nagant model 1891 made in 1908 at the Sestroryetsk Arsenal, with a fully 32" barrel; I haven't actually seen the rifle yet except for the picture and the description which says that all Tsarist markings are intact. I see the sticky about Russian markings and I'll look at that when I actually get hold of the rifle. Lucky for me, my wife can actually read any Russian writing that may be on it.

I would assume that this rifle could quite possibly have taken a roll in WW1 and/or the revolution, as near as I can tell the Sestroryetsk Arsenal (which I have yet to look up) must have been close to Finland and was abandoned and moved in 1918 because Russia and Finland were always getting on each other’s nerves. Now, the first thing my wife asks me is "would this rifle have been used in WW2?"

This got me thinking; one would think that since it existed, in Russia, at the time of WW2, it would naturally be used, although maybe by prison guards or border guards or some other form of second class troops; however, we all know about the Russian capture guns, K-98’s, Walthers, P-08’s etcetera that have the waffenamps peened out; make me think the Russians have a bit of a hard-on about obliterating the marks of the losers. This one, with all Tsarist marks intact, would they have peened out the Tsarist marks? Would they have added commie marks? From the little this picture shows, does anyone notice anything obviously missing or incorrect?

I can’t wait to try this one, a 32” barrel with a 7.62 x 54r should be able to reach out and touch at well over 1,000 meters.

Any thoughts?

Thanks all,

Lupo
 
Hi Lupo,

That's a GORGEOUS early Mosin. If you don't already know a great online resource is: http://7.62x54r.net/. I also encourage you spend $15-20 and pick up The Mosin-Nagant Rifle by Terence W. Lapin. More info than you could possibly need!!!!!!

Who REALLY knows the exact history of any of these milsurps, but a few things I may offer:

1) It seems very likely it was used in some capacity in WW2. Mother Russia had many more men than rifles; so it would have been pressed into service. I'm surprised at the condition, as usually anything of this vintage not captured by the Finns is BEAT to hell...
2) It's interesting that you still have the 31.6 inch barrel, which is the original 1891 length. The stock bolt is present, which didn't start until 1910, so it appears that it may have been refurbished at some time. Without more/close pics it's hard to evaluate anything else.
3) Again, hard to say without closer pics, but note your sights MAY be in arshini rather than metres... one arshin is 2.333 feet, so you do the math and figure out which it is...
4) You are correct... The Sestroryesk Arsenal ceased production of Mosins in 1918. Apparently the machinery was dismantled by the "Reds" as the "Whites" were threatening capture of the factory.

Overall she is a BEAUTY! Enjoy her!
 
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Just from the pictures it looks to be a Finnish Capture (sling swivels are the Finnish style and it maybe the two piece Finnish stock). Basically what this means is after WWI it ended up in the hands of Finland. There were various ways this happened. It could have already been in Finland at the time of them separating, it may have been captured by another country then sold to Finland after WWI (Finland was buying up as many Mosin Nagants they could get there hands on and most countries were willing to sell them as they had no need for the Russian firearms). It would be correct for all the markings to be intact as I don't think Finland was very big on destroying the markings, just making sure the rifles worked.

Can't wait to see some more photos as that one only gives a little taste of what it really is.
 
First of all congrats on M91 and moreover - on Sestroryesk M91. Hopefully it will be start of M91 collection.
As for WW2 service - yes, she saw the service. But to be sure 100 we need to see the markings. Without detailed pics I already can tell she lost its original stock and now sitting in Finnish 2-piece stock. So it's now Finnish M1891, which is rework of original M1891. In the best case receiver and barrel are still of Sestroryesk, other parts are mixed. In the worst case it's total mixmaster.
 
Thanks, your talking about the bolt in the rear of the finger groove? I'll have to look into that; do you know if there would be a refurb mark like the Lee enfields and their "FTR"?
 
this is why I love this forum....it's like having an automatic encyclopedia! I will definitely post pictures when I get it; I hear Prophet River is pretty quick shipping out but, I live in the arctic and it can still take weeks for things to arrive here.
 
If it is a Finn it will likely have a SA mark on it. Pre-1909 Russian Mosins had sling swivels rather than slots, but your swivels do look Finn. Once you get it look at the bottom of the stock below the rear sight. Finn stocks are finger jointed, and stand up to the cold much better than the original Russian stocks (go figure...).

If it was refurbed by the Russians post-WW2 it would sport the "diver down" marking (kinda like [/]) for arsenal refurbed wood, and something like this for arsenal refurbed metal. That said, I'm surprised if it's not a Finn as it certainly looks like one. Good news is the Finns usually shoot very well!
 
My first Imperial MN is a Sestroryetski 1907 which has most definitely been "Finn'd" and so marked, SA and all.

The factory markings on the Chamber are an absolute work of art!

Compared to the beauty you are getting, it looks like recycled garbage, but that counterbored barrel will still shoot just over an inch off the sandbags.... with good ammo.

Where it has been, what it has been a part of, I have no proof whatever.

But it COULD have seen the Great War, Russian Revolution, Bolshevik Revolution, Finnish Independence War, Russian Civil War, Winter War, Continuation War, Great Patriotic War and God-Himself-only-knows what else.

I paid 39 bucks for that piece of junk and it is NOT for sale! It brings with it the very stench of History.
 
Phat Eagle said:
$39!!!!!! Ah, the good ol' days!!!
Click to expand...

It wasn't that long ago. I remember the time... I actually have the picture of Smellie buying that Mosin Nagant. Here you can see Indian is trying to show Smellie that all numbers are matching, and Smellie trying to low ball him saying that it's a beater :)

trading.jpg
 
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My wife already did reward me; she asked me to buy this Mosin because I was able to add it into the negotiations while buying a nice new Winchester model 70 super grade in 30-06 and a Leupold VX-3 4.5-10x40mm with the target dot reticle (my first foray into true long range shooting); I picked the model 70 in 30-06 because that's what the Marine corps snipers used in Viet Nam.
 
@ HORILKA:

Great picture.... and really not all THAT far from true.

My Grandfather, George Thomas Armstrong, was trained in London as a fur-grader and trader. He swapped guns for furs with the Indians in a tiny place called Fort Edmonton.

Likely you have heard of the place, though it has grown a bit since he worked there!

I have his copy (in new condition, in wrap) of the History of the Hudson's Bay Company which was printed for Company workers in 1920.

Alas! I don't have ANY of his guns..... and would give almost anything for one. They disappeared 90 years ago....
 
Great picture of smellie! My uncle, George Gardner, worked as a trader for the Hudson Bay Company in the 1940's. at Beauval, SK, and right on the Alaska border. When I worked at Buffalo Narrows and Dillon, I would run across Gardiners (spelling different) and tease them that we might be cousins. Sadly, I didn't meet anybody old enough to recall my uncle.

Those old Mosin Nagants have history dripping from them.
 
So, this rifle arrived today, not quite what I expected; first, she’s a bit of a mix master – the number on the barrel, bolt and bottom of the magazine are all different; that’s not too bad...I took my chance on that. Second, and the one that irks me, it’s not a Sestroryetsk Arsenal as stated; its (I believe, much more common) Izhevsk Arsenal; now this does disappoint; I’m wondering if anyone can help with possible recourses? First is, of course, I could send it back. I don’t think I want to; in the end it cost $336 shipped and it is a 105 year old Mosin Nagant which is what my wife wanted. Second is possibly asking for some kind of store credit, if it’s worth it; can anybody tell me a) if $336 is a good price for what I got or, b) what kind of price difference are we talking about? Should I ask for a $50 dollar credit on a future purchase? $100? Free shipping? Or let it drop?
Any thoughts?
I’ll post some pictures when I get a chance, probably this evening.
 
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