Picked up an 'old school' S&W K38 - questions

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ScarceChalice9

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After saying 'no more guns for a while' an offer i couldn't refuse came up......

A friend of a friend was selling a S&W K38 Masterpiece (Model 14) for a very reasonable price and I couldn't help myself :)

It's a 5-screw 6" serial No K159### placing it as made in 1952. Some minor wear marks but overall lovely. The SA is beautiful and the DA feels brand new - impressive for a 61 year old revolver!

A couple of questions:
1) Does anywhere actually stock factory 38 special 'target' ammo (HBWC, SWC) anymore? I don't really want to run 38+P+++ Goldhydrazombiepoint paperkillers through it.

2) Can anyone recommend a tried n trusted reload recipie for target loads, preferrable using Bullseye powder?

3) Where's the best place to get revolver goodies, speedloaders, larger 'original' target grips etc.

And now, a wee pic of the new addition...
 
Congratulations. Unfortunately match wadcutters are no longer factory available, and you are right to avoid the heavy loads, however you can generally find the old standard police load of 158 swc or jacketed bullets at around 800 GPS which wil work fine and not over stress the pistol. Standard target load has been 2.7 grns bullseye and either 148grn flat base or hollowbase lead. These days you pretty much have to load your own, but be aware that the "new" bullseye is less powerful and a bump up of one to three tenths of a grain is needed. I load 3.0 in all of my 38 match ammo now. WSS might have speedloaders, but it will usually be just as fast to get them from brownells. PM me about target grips if you mean saw handle style for ISSF competition.

dr Jim
 
Sounds like you may need to get into reloading. Or since you're asking about loading recipes perhaps you already do reload for some other rounds?

Budget reloading is listing the Speer 148gn HBWC bullets for a pretty decent price.

When I loaded up a batch of these a couple of years back I found that they shot nicely to POA with 2.9 gns of Bullseye. When searching out this recipe I found that the powder charge for this same bullet varied from as low as 2.6 in one case up to 3.2.

With the fixed sight guns such as my Model 10 the POI is controlled by the amount of powder and the resulting muzzle velocity. For me this occured with the 2.9gns that I used. With your K38 you don't need to worry about that so I'd try loads from about 2.7 up to 3.2 looking for the amount which produces the tightest grouping when shot from a wrist rest to aid in steadying your aim.

When doing this I found that about a dozen of each load amount was enough to tell what they shoot like. Once you find the best amount of powder experiment with how deeply to set the bullet. Again I've seen information that suggests anywhere from slightly sticking out to slightly recessed. And crimp amounts from darn near none to a more firm amount. So finding which works best might take you a few sessions.

Keep notes and once you find the best setup load lots and enjoy that fine S&W.
 
Actually Winchester still makes a target 148 HBWC load from time to time - the last box I saw was just under $59 a box. The cartridge is easy to reload for and as a benefit, a pound of powder will last almost forever. My PPC gun runs best on 3.0 grains, but every gun is slightly different. Even with standard velocity factory ammo, your K38 should deliver excellent accuracy, the gun was basically built for the 'Distinguished' PPC match which requires standard velocity 158 grain semi-wadcutters.
 
A great Target Revolver !

.. Do NOT feed it a diet of +P ! ( When the RCMP intoduced the +P for duty/issue,circ 1976 I think they ruled out the +P loads for all but the "D" prefixed Model 10 Revolvers...and some of the very last "C" series for occasional use until replacement could be effected ) ... I think you'll find the cast SWC 148/158 grain, with lighter powder charges, will work well with it. "Speed Loaders" are still widely available, and all ones designated, for the Model 10, should fit. Grips, the same story, and Heritts is one I know, that will make custom fitted ones, but for a price. And there are many that offer over the counter grips that will fit. ..... Its a fine Target revolver, and well worth looking after, and capable of excellent accuracy! ...... David K
 
3.5 grains of Bullseye or up to 5 grains of Unique should work well with a 158 grain SWC for standard pressure loads.

The official word from S&W is that any K Frame .38 stamped with a model number under the crane (1958 and up) is OK to use with +P ammunition. That being said, your 1952 K-38 has the same metallurgy as a 1958 Model 14. The pre-war long action guns are the ones that really should not be used with +P ammo. I don't see any harm in shooting +P, but I don't see any compelling reason to do so, either.
 
Every single 38 spl on the planet will shoot this load: 148gr hollowbase wadcutter, 2.7gr bullseye.

That said, i don't have a supply of hbwc, but i have a mould for 158 rn. i load them with 3.2gr of red dot. Very cheap to load, and it shoots better than I do. According to quickload, 3.2 of red dot is pushing the top end of .38 special loads, but is below the low end of +P.

As far as speedloaders, it's a hard gun to use them with. Even with the big cutout in the left hand panel, there isn't enough room to fit the speedloader past (at least with mine). I also have a set of pachmayr grips, and have the same problem with them. I have considered getting an old set of target grips and enlarging the slot, or maybe trying to find a decent set of the REALLY old school grips )the very ting slim ones).

As far as the actual speedloaders go, stak away from HKS. You have to turn the knob towards the gun, which will try to close the action unless you have holk hands and can hold both the frame and cylinder tightly at the same time. The rounds also have a tendency to stick and require jiggling to drop free. Safariland comp II and comp III are pushbutton type, and actually eject the rounds out and work well. Good luck finding any for less than $40 each. For that price, I'm considering a group buy with a couple other guys on some speedloaders from 5starfirearms. They're machined aluminum, and are smaller in diameter than the plastic ones, so more clearance to get past the grips. While they're the twist type, they twist AWAY from the frame, which appears to work a lot easier than the traditional, towards the frame ones.

As far as holsters go, I bought a http://sportsmansguide.ca/net/cb/th...l-sw-k-and-l-frame-ruger-gp-100.aspx?a=268452 and it's not bad. It fits fairly well, though the thumb strap is a little long (it's a K/L frame holster).
 
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tjhaile said:
3.5 grains of Bullseye or up to 5 grains of Unique should work well with a 158 grain SWC for standard pressure loads.

The official word from S&W is that any K Frame .38 stamped with a model number under the crane (1958 and up) is OK to use with +P ammunition. That being said, your 1952 K-38 has the same metallurgy as a 1958 Model 14. The pre-war long action guns are the ones that really should not be used with +P ammo. I don't see any harm in shooting +P, but I don't see any compelling reason to do so, either.
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I'd be cautious with 5 gr Unique as a standard pressure load. The Lee Manual lists the never exceed at 4.3 gr Unique. I'd argue you're getting into +P territory with 5 gr. I'm sure the revolver would be fine, but it's really not rated for it.
 
Trail boss (~4.0 grains IIRC) under 158 LSWC is what I've been running in my .38 (other than the factory loads I bought, just to get the brass). Not a S&W but the effects are the same. No complaints about Unique just haven't tried it in my .38. TB has been accurate, reliable and easy on the recoil.

Just my 0.02 - try out a bunch of loads.
 
Thanks all - upon further investigation it is a 1952 model, meaning it's a proper K38 designation not a Model 14. I'd like to stick with one powder for now - the Bullseye - and it seems popular, anywhere from 2.7 to 3.5 grains. If I can find some HBWC to load, do they need a roll or taper crimp?

Picked up some 158gn LRN for $20 a box of 50 so will hopefully have a play with them soon. Meanwhile a couple of crappy cellphone pics!

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11285_593851837309987_1837983579_n.jpg
 
Excellent score! I have one myself. They're beautiful pieces, examples of true precision machinery. If you're consistent on your reloads, it will give you spectacular accuracy at normal ranges, too.

IIRC, back when I used to reload 38SPL, I used to load 2.7 gr. of Bullseye behind 148 gr. wadcutters. It shot so well it was almost boring!!

Enjoy!
 
I use 2.7 grains of Bullseye behind 148 grain wadcutters. This has been the standard target load for the 38 Special for longer than most of us have been alive (Bullseye was introduced by Laflin & Rand in 1898, the same year the 38 Special was). This is a very light load to shoot in the K38 Smith and Wesson and is very inexpensive to shoot. Last time I bought components it was brass – free (pick up range brass), primers – 29.99 for a thousand, powder – 29.99 for a pound, and projectiles – 44.99 for 500. That will cost you a whopping $0.13 a round, $6.58 a box of 50, and $65.80 a brick. I pay more for quality 22LR ammunition, I know my time isn’t in there but I enjoy reloading.
 
Kirk1701 said:
I'd be cautious with 5 gr Unique as a standard pressure load. The Lee Manual lists the never exceed at 4.3 gr Unique. I'd argue you're getting into +P territory with 5 gr. I'm sure the revolver would be fine, but it's really not rated for it.
Click to expand...

It depends on who you ask. Lyman 49th edition gives a maximum of 5.0 grains Unique for a 158 grain JHP and 5.1 grains for the #358156 cast SWC. John Taffin mentions 5.0 grains as his standard here:
http://www.sixguns.com/tests/tt38spcl.htm
See also Skeeter Skelton here:
http://www.darkcanyon.net/A Letter From Skeeter Skelton.htm

Lee data tends to be conservative compared to other manuals.
 
tjhaile said:
It depends on who you ask. Lyman 49th edition gives a maximum of 5.0 grains Unique for a 158 grain JHP and 5.1 grains for the #358156 cast SWC. John Taffin mentions 5.0 grains as his standard here:
http://www.sixguns.com/tests/tt38spcl.htm
See also Skeeter Skelton here:
http://www.darkcanyon.net/A Letter From Skeeter Skelton.htm

Lee data tends to be conservative compared to other manuals.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I'd still be conservative with such a clean example as the OPs.
 
mwjones said:
Safariland comp II and comp III are pushbutton type, and actually eject the rounds out and work well. Good luck finding any for less than $40 each. For that price, I'm considering a group buy with a couple other guys on some speedloaders from 5starfirearms. They're machined aluminum, and are smaller in diameter than the plastic ones, so more clearance to get past the grips. While they're the twist type, they twist AWAY from the frame, which appears to work a lot easier than the traditional, towards the frame ones.
Click to expand...
[emphasis mine]

How did you make out with this?
 
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