I can't find anything definitive on this. Everything I've seen is splitting the fence in this topic. I know that if they stamp it as 44 magnum it means it better be able to handle factory SAAMI spec ammo. However I would like to know if pietta has beefed up the frame size from their 45 colt version? 357 magnum has a very similar pressure to that of the 44 mag (I believe it's 35000psi to 36000psi for both in my reloading books) so does that mean that the 357 version also has a beefed up frame? I'm far more familiar with the modern 686's and GP100's and 629's and Blackhawks and the like. This is new territory for me. To summarize, can the pietta handle full power factory 44 mag loads, and not blow apart?
Pietta 1873 full power 44 mag loads
- Thread starter JAG1001
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Lonesome Donkey
CGN frequent flyer
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- Central Alberta
Factory,yes.
But, with a compressed load of Bullseye, I wouldn't bet on it.
I would also stay away from "boutique" factory loads (from the Excited States but now a bit more available in Canada) like Buffalo Bore and HSM ... I calculated that my HSM .44 Magnums have 46% more energy than the usual Remington cartridges (a bigger 305 g bullet going even faster) in my Rossi Ranch Hand.
I've got a couple of .357 Pietta '73's that I've used for about 8 years of cowboy action shooting. The guns are the same overall size for all the models. If it were not then it would not be a clone of the 1873. So when you see them they are actually quite a small gun. Nothing at all like the size of a Blackhawk or Super Blackhawk or an N frame S&W. In fact they are sized very close to my K frame S&W's.
They are great guns but I really don't think that mine would still be tight and well timed if I'd shot them using full power .357Mag ammo all this time. As it is I've put around 50 full house magnums through the two of them over the years. But the rest of the time I've gone with .38Spl. Both guns are still tight and well timed because of this. If I'd shot a steady diet of magnum all this time I'm fairly sure that the guns would have loosened up long ago. Or I'd have had to replace hands and stop bolts on a frequent basis instead of still being on the originals.
I'd consider the .44Mag versions to be much the same. A couple of factory or similar power reloaded rounds now and then for giggles? Sure. But if you want the action to stay tight for thousands of rounds I'm thinking that you are better off shooting ammo that is closer to .44Spl power levels. Or be prepared to face the cost of new parts and possibly beating up the frame over time to where it's no longer usable.
If you want a proper and true .44Magnum you should just get a Ruger.
They are great guns but I really don't think that mine would still be tight and well timed if I'd shot them using full power .357Mag ammo all this time. As it is I've put around 50 full house magnums through the two of them over the years. But the rest of the time I've gone with .38Spl. Both guns are still tight and well timed because of this. If I'd shot a steady diet of magnum all this time I'm fairly sure that the guns would have loosened up long ago. Or I'd have had to replace hands and stop bolts on a frequent basis instead of still being on the originals.
I'd consider the .44Mag versions to be much the same. A couple of factory or similar power reloaded rounds now and then for giggles? Sure. But if you want the action to stay tight for thousands of rounds I'm thinking that you are better off shooting ammo that is closer to .44Spl power levels. Or be prepared to face the cost of new parts and possibly beating up the frame over time to where it's no longer usable.
If you want a proper and true .44Magnum you should just get a Ruger.
Well I heard that the 44 mag is new to pietta and it is using a larger frame (much like the "old" vaquero's) the reason that you can't use the ridiculous high power 45 colt loads in the pietta is because the cylinder walls are too thin due to the almost half inch cartridge diameter. SO to say that I can use a cartridge that has more than double the pressure, it would have to be somewhat beefier. If it wasn't then they'd say you could use hot 45 colt loads in the 45 colt chambered pietta. Lol I guess I'm answering my own questions
You got my curiosity up and I went looking around. The only reference to anything being larger that I could find is the lower frame that holds the wooden grips. The upper receiver frame appears to be the same as the other 1873's. And all the pictures I could find support this. So I'm not seeing anything that suggests that they enlarged the actual receiver or upper main frame at all.
There's a video by the guys at Marstar from some time back showing them shooting one with full power loads. Here again the small size of the gun suggests that the main frame is the same old 1873 pattern. It also looks like it kicks like the proverbial mule.
Those special high power loads are only ever intended for the specific large frame Rugers. They are not intended for use in any 1873's of any form or even in any S&W's chambered in .45Colt.
Keep in mind that the cylinder is the key to simply burst pressure ratings. And with the .44Mag casings being smaller than .45Colt by a fair margin that's metal added to the walls of the cylinder to aid in holding the pressure. Which is why when Elmer Kieth was looking for the gun to use with his hot .44Spl loads that were the basis for the .44Mag that they chose the .44Spl to stretch out so they would have enough metal in the cylinder to withstand the pressure. The actual main frame takes a beating too. But not nearly to the same extent as the cylinder. So likely along with the thicker walls with the .44Mag bores Pietta is using some serious metal in the cylinders on their .44Mag versions.
I know that I quite enjoy the magnums from my Super Blackhawk. But that same ammo out of a far lighter '73? Not for me thanks. That would be just way too much "fun"
But if it's something you like the idea of and go ahead with it I wish you all the best of luck.
I HOPE I'm wrong about my suspicions about the action and lockup and the gun lasts for thousands of rounds without a hiccup for you. That would be fantastic and a show of just how good a gun Pietta is making. And to be fair all the concern over the magnum loads shooting the guns loose is hearsay as well. I can't say I've run into any stories of any Pietta or Uberti 1873's chambered in the Magnum calibers being shot frequently with full power loads that did shoot loose. It does seem to be one of those Internet stories.
There's a video by the guys at Marstar from some time back showing them shooting one with full power loads. Here again the small size of the gun suggests that the main frame is the same old 1873 pattern. It also looks like it kicks like the proverbial mule.
Those special high power loads are only ever intended for the specific large frame Rugers. They are not intended for use in any 1873's of any form or even in any S&W's chambered in .45Colt.
Keep in mind that the cylinder is the key to simply burst pressure ratings. And with the .44Mag casings being smaller than .45Colt by a fair margin that's metal added to the walls of the cylinder to aid in holding the pressure. Which is why when Elmer Kieth was looking for the gun to use with his hot .44Spl loads that were the basis for the .44Mag that they chose the .44Spl to stretch out so they would have enough metal in the cylinder to withstand the pressure. The actual main frame takes a beating too. But not nearly to the same extent as the cylinder. So likely along with the thicker walls with the .44Mag bores Pietta is using some serious metal in the cylinders on their .44Mag versions.
I know that I quite enjoy the magnums from my Super Blackhawk. But that same ammo out of a far lighter '73? Not for me thanks. That would be just way too much "fun"
But if it's something you like the idea of and go ahead with it I wish you all the best of luck. I HOPE I'm wrong about my suspicions about the action and lockup and the gun lasts for thousands of rounds without a hiccup for you. That would be fantastic and a show of just how good a gun Pietta is making. And to be fair all the concern over the magnum loads shooting the guns loose is hearsay as well. I can't say I've run into any stories of any Pietta or Uberti 1873's chambered in the Magnum calibers being shot frequently with full power loads that did shoot loose. It does seem to be one of those Internet stories.
In that case you and the gun(s) will do just fine together. I got the impression from the first post that you were keen on the "Big Wrist Wrecker" loads.
Folks often forget that the original full power black powder loads put out quite a kick. Nothing like .44 Mag of course. But still..... And with today's better metals these reproductions are even more durable than the old originals. So while I have my doubts about a long and trouble free life if shooting a steady diet of Magnums if we drop back to .44Spl then they'll last for thousands of rounds.
The only real weak spot in the old original Colt actions is the leaf springs. In particular the trigger and stop bolt spring. But just keep that in mind and at some point pick up one of the bent wire springs to replace it.
Folks often forget that the original full power black powder loads put out quite a kick. Nothing like .44 Mag of course. But still..... And with today's better metals these reproductions are even more durable than the old originals. So while I have my doubts about a long and trouble free life if shooting a steady diet of Magnums if we drop back to .44Spl then they'll last for thousands of rounds.
The only real weak spot in the old original Colt actions is the leaf springs. In particular the trigger and stop bolt spring. But just keep that in mind and at some point pick up one of the bent wire springs to replace it.
I've been thinking and if I were to load to say 44 special +P for lack of a better description, I should get a long life out of that pistol while still having a stout enough load to see milk jugs and watermelons explode spectacularly. Do you folks think my reasoning is sound?
The rare times I've shot at fruit and vegetables I didn't really find that any handguns really made stuff like that blow up. To make fruit and veggies really explode it's all about the bullet velocity. And even hollow point magnums from a handgun just don't seem to really do it like high speed rifle rounds do. The hollow points provided pretty good exit "wounds" but from the firing line you don't see those until you walk out to switch out the targets. This may not be the same thing with water jugs. I haven't tried them with faster hollow points. If your experience is different on that count you could certainly try some lightly hotter loads. There's no data for .44Spl +P but if you run slightly less than starting loads from the Magnum data that should get you in the ballpark.
Note that since such things are NOT out there the safe way to do this is use a powder that is used in both Special and Magnum loads so you know that there's no oddball behavior issues with the powder when used in an amount between the Special and Magnum power loads. Not all powders can do that. Some don't want to be used at less than a certain amount and others become dangerous if used in excess of what is listed in the Special data. So only powders that show up in BOTH Special and Magnum. If this is pretty basic and you already knew this then my apologies for stressing it over again. You already stated you're a long time reloader. But better a few unrequired words of caution than not, eh?
I do know that a .500 S&W Magnum hollow point shot from a 16 inch barrel on a TC Encore into a pumpkin filled with club soda turns into an orange mist with just the stem hanging from the string left behind....
Note that since such things are NOT out there the safe way to do this is use a powder that is used in both Special and Magnum loads so you know that there's no oddball behavior issues with the powder when used in an amount between the Special and Magnum power loads. Not all powders can do that. Some don't want to be used at less than a certain amount and others become dangerous if used in excess of what is listed in the Special data. So only powders that show up in BOTH Special and Magnum. If this is pretty basic and you already knew this then my apologies for stressing it over again. You already stated you're a long time reloader. But better a few unrequired words of caution than not, eh?
I do know that a .500 S&W Magnum hollow point shot from a 16 inch barrel on a TC Encore into a pumpkin filled with club soda turns into an orange mist with just the stem hanging from the string left behind....
I had one of the .44 Piettas and it looked the same as my 45 colt, for size. The grip frame is larger, more like an 1860 army, but that's about it.
I sold it mostly because of the transfer bar. If a gun has one of those, then I'll just buy a Ruger. If I want an 1873, then it will not be debased such.
I did not realize that I was going to feel that way until I had the Pietta in my hands.
I sold it mostly because of the transfer bar. If a gun has one of those, then I'll just buy a Ruger. If I want an 1873, then it will not be debased such.
I did not realize that I was going to feel that way until I had the Pietta in my hands.
Bringing this thread back for an update. Yes it can handle factory magnum loads, I have only shot a couple hundred rounds of factory American eagle (240 grain at 1200fps) and it will take it like a champ. However and this is a big however, it is indeed the regular "original" colt 1879 size frame and being so it is quite light. As you could imagine it hits the hand VERY hard and was quite uncomfortable to shoot and I just couldn't find a grip on it that wouldn't hurt me. I ended up selling it and buying a Ruger super blackhawk which with the same loading is far and away easier on the hands. I bring this thread back to let people who might be interested in this revolver know that it can handle full power mag loads however my recommendation is to keep it to 44 special velocities.
240 at 1200fps is pretty much 44special Peak performance, +P if that's what you want to call it. I will say the 1873 variants of revolvers handle that power alot better without punishing your hands a bit (IF) an oversized grip is installed in the place of the sleek and perfect factory grip. I've shot hundreds of the 44special Heavy loads @ 1200fps in these kind of revolvers with a set of oversized (slightly wider/& thicker palmed) Horn grips without reason to complain; besides running out of ammo! lol
Personally, I wouldn't be scared to try a true 44mag 1300+ velocity load in an 1873 revolver so long as I had the right grips on it. A good grip makes a world of difference when shooting those heavier loads, they make it MUCH easier to control (night & day easier) and that helps "huge" to shoot consistently... without control it becomes very frustrating*
Personally, I wouldn't be scared to try a true 44mag 1300+ velocity load in an 1873 revolver so long as I had the right grips on it. A good grip makes a world of difference when shooting those heavier loads, they make it MUCH easier to control (night & day easier) and that helps "huge" to shoot consistently... without control it becomes very frustrating*
Yes.
I have Rugers and I have Colt clones. The clones get factory pressures and less. If I want to hot dog, it is only done with the Rugers.
Tell that to Smith & Wesson, I'd look for weasel words in the owners manual and warranty
Pietta and all European made weapons have to pass C.I.P. standards.
The .44 Magnum, pistol and carbine are found here;
http://www.cip-bobp.org/homologation/en/tdcc_public?page=4&cartridge_type_id=4
The .44 Magnum, pistol and carbine are found here;
http://www.cip-bobp.org/homologation/en/tdcc_public?page=4&cartridge_type_id=4
One of the problems with the 45 colt caliber is the quantity of old guns (and the new clones built to the same specs) They can't hold a candle to some of the new guns (particularly the Blackhawk and NOT the new Vaquero). That is why most reloading books have a separate section specifically for Rugers and the like. The loads listed in those sections are more than double SAAMI standards, and you use them at your own risk no matter what gun you shoot them in. If the gun is stamped 44 mag, then it MUST meet SAAMI minimums, which means full house factory loads. I wouldn't give it a steady diet of them but it woun't blow up, but it may loosen up quicker
