Pistol familiarity

You don't NEED training...but a trained shooter with 5000 rounds of structured drill time under their belt is generally a better shooter than an untrained one with tens of thousands of rounds of plinking to their name.

Shooting is like almost anything else...driving, playing hockey, swimming...you can teach yourself if you like but if you think that is likely to put you in the same league as people professionally trained in that activity, you're probably not being very realistic.

It is very unusual to see self-taught, untrained people performing at a high level in almost any discipline. Shooting is no different.
 
You don't need to get professional training. You just need to remember the rules.

Rule #1 Be safe.

Rule #2 HAVE FUN!!!
 
My personal advice aka this means NOTHING

I'm a brand new shooter, I only own one gun and the wife hasn't shot it yet but...

Start with a .22 like you said. It's cheap to shoot, buy the half decent ammo because why cheap out on a 22? If you start with larger even a 9 you'll pay more for ammo then possibly take longer to upgrade or to shoot more. You can always ditch the 22 if you don't find it worth while.

22 has low recoil. Good for all new shooters, guys and girls.
22 makes for good practice. Shoot more, wait much more, and spend less.
22 is cheap to shoot. Yeah that.

Don't go buy a specific 22 vs etc because all guns are different. If you find a 'matching gun' then ya go for it, get familiar with the functions etc but I was told I could learn on my 22 semi and swap to a center fire revolver.
Do! Buy a good 22, something that has a good track record. Ruger, Browning, and I like my Sig/GSG 1911-22

Don't bother with conversion kits just buy two guns, unless its a gun you plan on owning in the future (glock ### for example), and never sharing with another person. Keep in mind you only get one gun (with 2 calibers) if you want to share this isn't the answer.
 
TDC said:
If you expect to place when you compete or even come close to being competent, you need professional training. Hate to burst the male ego bubble, but no one is natural born shooter(lover or driver for that matter). Some people learn faster than others or have a natural talent for shooting. However, your natural ability will soon reach its limit and you will require professional training. Being one of those who was naturally a decent shot, I can assure you that training will improve your skills dramatically. I thought I knew how to shoot, then I took some training. The reality is you don't know what you don't know. Videos and text discussions are not training. Until you learn what to do and how to do it properly, you can't self critique.

Here's my litmus test for "shooters". If they can't explain and demonstrate what reset is, they need training. If they can't explain offset and how to compensate, they need training. If they can't explain the difference between sight alignment and sight picture, they need training. When it comes to rifles its a similar set of questions. What is MOA, what is your max PBR, what is your max ordinate with your current zero? If you can't answer those questions, you need training and a lot more trigger time. Additionally, if you look at your rifle to operate the safety/selector, you need training. Same deal for holsters.

Why more people don't seek training is beyond me. Yes it isn't cheap, but its a wicked fun time and you improve your skills, what's not to like?

TDC
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All basic skill and safety handleing knowledge already learned at the pal course, what else we need to pay another instuctor to learn?? hundreds years ago, those wild west cowboys don't have a professional training but they use gun for their life everyday.

Trigun
 
I went the same route with the Browning Buck Mark with a bull barrel. It ran out of favor shortly after the CZ75B in 9MM arrived. The 9 just knocks over those chickens with more authority.
The misses shoots a STI Trojan in 9mm now. I moved on to the the 45acp. Time for a trip to an Edmonton gun store to see what fits you and the misses hands.
I see a Dillon XL650 in your future!!
Oh and have fun.
 
stevebc said:
I guess it depends on what folks are looking for when it comes to shooting. There's nothing wrong with getting training, but it's not a requirement. I wouldn't want newbies to think that professional training is needed. Desired, maybe, but optional.
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GunGuy34 said:
Some of the best IPSC shooters out there have never taken a class. If this was a discussion about CCW, then Id agree. Professional training should be a must.
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The above posts are exactly right. Its not needed, but if you really want to improve your skills and are serious about competing then training is required. Even if you don't compete, training will improve your performance which makes even the most relaxed range visit more enjoyable. As I posted before, I don't understand why more people don't attend professional training schools. An insane amount of fun with like minded people and you improve your skillset, what's not to like?

plinker 777 said:
What is this "safety" thing you speak of????
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You're a funny guy...;)

gnmontey said:
Are you a trainer?

M
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I have instructed others but do not do it professionally.

TDC
 
If you are in the Edmonton region, m39a2 often teaches new shooters how to shoot well. He's a good guy.
 
I messaged Hickok45 on this topic, and asked him if he ever had professional training. Here is his reply:


"Self taught. It takes a lot of rounds downrange, regardless of training. Takes a lot of shooting for the gun to become just an extension of our arms. Not that I've reached that point, but it's a process. It's like shooting a basketball; you just have to do it a lot, preferably with proper technique, of course."

Hickok45
 
GunGuy34 said:
I messaged Hickok45 on this topic, and asked him if he ever had professional training. Here is his reply:


"Self taught. It takes a lot of rounds downrange, regardless of training. Takes a lot of shooting for the gun to become just an extension of our arms. Not that I've reached that point, but it's a process. It's like shooting a basketball; you just have to do it a lot, preferably with proper technique, of course."

Hickok45
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The key part to his post is 'PROPER TECHNIQUE'. Hard to practice proper technique when the vast vast majority have no clue what they are.

You don't know what you don't know.

TDC
 
TDC said:
The key part to his post is 'PROPER TECHNIQUE'. Hard to practice proper technique when the vast vast majority have no clue what they are.

You don't know what you don't know.

TDC
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No the key part of his post was Self taught, He taught himself the proper technique.
 
GunGuy34 said:
No the key part of his post was Self taught, He taught himself the proper technique.
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You can't teach yourself proper technique. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW. I guess I can teach myself to be a doctor if I just watch enough videos and read enough books. Perhaps I can teach myself to be an astronaut as well.

As an example, Magpul videos are not training. They are gun #### videos that give you an idea what kind of skills you can learn, should you attend PROFESSIONAL TRAINING. The fact that most eat that sh*t up without really analyzing it is just proof that people don't know what they don't know. I wrote a quasi review of Magpul's BS methods some time ago. The fact that what they teach is geared for right handed AR users only was lost on the masses. All they saw were two dudes running "slick" (look it up if you don't know what it means) on a nice flat range manipulating their guns quickly. Yet as predicted by many and likely including their marketing department, the videos sold like hot cakes. It looked "cool" so dumb people everywhere bought the videos, watched them a few times and then pretend to know what they're doing. Never having an instructor of said techniques actually critique their form or correct their bad habits.

As for hickok 45. He is consistent and accurate. He's also firing from a static position on static targets that he has engaged many many times before. A lot of his form is missing/lacking and he could be a lot more efficient and consistent if he practiced some better methods/techniques. Which brings us back to my statement, "you don't know what you don't know". If self taught was so successful we wouldn't have post secondary institutes. Online or correspondence learning would be a much larger market.

TDC
 
It's really just a question of "how long do you want it to take and how good do you want to be?"

If you want it to take until you're as old as Hickock 45, or you don't really care if you get very good, definitely teaching yourself is fine.

But there is a reason that no organization that requires its members to shoot just hands them a gun and says, "here, you figure it out".

You can teach yourself, but you'll take years to get as good as you would with a bit of training. And along the way, you will teach yourself all kinds of bad habits you'll spend years unlearning later.

So if you never want to do anything other than goof around and plink casually, there's no real advantage to getting trained to shoot well.

But if you want to be good at shooting, just ask yourself, "if this was golf/water polo/speaking Farsi/fixing microwave ovens/whatever, would I learn faster and more efficiently by spending a few hours a month trying to do it, or would I learn faster and get better by having a coach tell me how to do this and working to improve me actively?"

Obviously getting professionally trained is a huge advantage. The question is not whether training is a major advantage...it's just "does the advantage this represents interest me enough to do it?"

For me, yes. For many, no. That is totally fine. I have no formal training in woodworking and I don't care...I just goof around with it now and then and I don't care if I'm all that great at it. If I wanted to be competitive in that field...absolutely I would find a trainer and start working with him to improve my skillset, because that's the most efficient approach.
 
TDC said:
You can't teach yourself proper technique. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW. I guess I can teach myself to be a doctor if I just watch enough videos and read enough books. Perhaps I can teach myself to be an astronaut as well.

As an example, Magpul videos are not training. They are gun #### videos that give you an idea what kind of skills you can learn, should you attend PROFESSIONAL TRAINING. The fact that most eat that sh*t up without really analyzing it is just proof that people don't know what they don't know. I wrote a quasi review of Magpul's BS methods some time ago. The fact that what they teach is geared for right handed AR users only was lost on the masses. All they saw were two dudes running "slick" (look it up if you don't know what it means) on a nice flat range manipulating their guns quickly. Yet as predicted by many and likely including their marketing department, the videos sold like hot cakes. It looked "cool" so dumb people everywhere bought the videos, watched them a few times and then pretend to know what they're doing. Never having an instructor of said techniques actually critique their form or correct their bad habits.

As for hickok 45. He is consistent and accurate. He's also firing from a static position on static targets that he has engaged many many times before. A lot of his form is missing/lacking and he could be a lot more efficient and consistent if he practiced some better methods/techniques. Which brings us back to my statement, "you don't know what you don't know". If self taught was so successful we wouldn't have post secondary institutes. Online or correspondence learning would be a much larger market.

TDC
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Hickok45 has competed for years, in various types of competition. From IPSC, IDPA, Cowboy Action Shooting etc... He knows what hes doing. To say otherwise shows your ignorance.

You cant teach yourself to be a Doctor or Astronaut. Doctors have to practice on live human patients while under the supervision of more experience doctors. Astronauts need state of the art equipment that you wont find at Costco.

You could teach yourself to flip burgers.
 
everyone needs instruction to get to the top level of shooting (im speaking competitively of course,its hard to measure top level of CCW skills)

does this have to be a structured class? nope, its can be as simple as making friends with someone you know who is really good and shooting with them, they will critique you and help you. Or take some videos of yourself and post them on a forum where you know the people (brian enos being my choice) and get their advice. obviously the video isnt idea but it does work. In fact, a local GM did just that 2 days ago their to get expert opinion on how to keep his shooting skills moving forward, and another local GM i know jumps at every chance he has to take courses from world class shooters.
 
heavenIsAlie said:
everyone needs instruction to get to the top level of shooting (im speaking competitively of course,its hard to measure top level of CCW skills)

does this have to be a structured class? nope, its can be as simple as making friends with someone you know who is really good and shooting with them, they will critique you and help you. Or take some videos of yourself and post them on a forum where you know the people (brian enos being my choice) and get their advice. obviously the video isnt idea but it does work. In fact, a local GM did just that 2 days ago their to get expert opinion on how to keep his shooting skills moving forward, and another local GM i know jumps at every chance he has to take courses from world class shooters.
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Agreed.
 
I don't think it matters which gun you start with, once you know what you are doing (or at least think you know what you are doing) your tastes will change and the grass will be greener on different side of another fence...

I started with a 9mm Glock because... after all the internet research it seemed to be the most reliable and easy to maintain. It was fun to 'learn glock' but I tried other guns and prefer other triggers.

Now that I have shot so many handguns, I hate things about all of them. None are perfect. The gun I still like the most is my Ruger Mark I, I am sure it will eventually get replaced by a S&W 41 (also 22lr) but until then it's the gun that allows me to focus the most on improving.

Oddly enough I am most accurate with a 1911 of all the centerfire handguns, my hand doesn't like the sharp textures though.

The other thing I wanted to comment on is all this whining about grip angle. I think people should be more worried about trigger control. Best bang for the buck 22lr is a used Ruger Mark II in my opinion. The Mark III has annoying features and the Mark I (which I love) will bother most people because of it's quirks. It doesn't seem to bother me shooting guns with more or less straight grip angles.

What would bother me is the fact that most of those 'look-a-like' guns and conversion kits don't function all that well without high velocity ammo. A 22lr just ins't really up to the task of pushing a full size slide back. I prefer the price, accuracy and consistency of CCI SV (which probably won't cycle those guns). There is nothing more frustrating than fiddling with your gun that won't shoot with consistency when you could be focusing on improving your shooting.
 
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