Pistol Grip Shotguns: Function or Fantasy?

Pistol Grip Only Shotguns (PGO)

  • Functional

    Votes: 106 36.8%

  • Fantasy

    Votes: 146 50.7%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 36 12.5%
  • Total voters
    288
manbearpig said:
Remington870PistolGrip-2.jpg


let me start out by saying this isnt a typical Fudd thread.

compact PGO shotguns (pistol grip only) have proven military/LEO applications as breaching weapons, but I am interested in hearing any constructive arguments for or against pistol grip shotguns for typical civilian applications such as home defense, wildlife defense, trunk guns, etc.

there are plenty of threads showing off PGO shotguns in this forum - usually accompanied by brief Fudd-ish comments on them - but its been awhile since there has been a civil discussion on their merits (or lack thereof).

so, lets hear it. do you think PGO shotguns are functional, or fantasy?
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I think manbearpig's question is an interesting one for sure, and deserves a well thought out responce.

I'll give two examples as fodder for his valid question:

One true life war story, "Death in The Jungle" by Gary R. Smith & Alan Maki, the main character, an experienced Navy SEAL, during the Vietnam War, actually he chooses and carries, for to use on patrol missions an M37 Ithaca shotgun, one variant he uses, is a PGO combat shotgun. Specifically for, ambushes at close range so common, in the triple canopy jungle of the Mekong Delta. He only mentions flechettes or buckshot IIRC, so we must believe his own words.

My other example: In Alaska, forestry workers (or was it salmon counters??)
had the option to carry a Navy Arms 45-70 Siamese Mauser in the Alaskan wilderness.
These 18 or 20 inch barrelled rifles were sawed off just behind the pistol grip.

My own personal swing on this, & I can only come up with this disclaimer.
Really close range only, (to protect oneself only, not others out of range).............compact but legal, with power to spare, out of those 18-20 inch pipes.
 
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In my world, a PGO shotgun is only there because there was no practical way to carry it with a full stock.

I've tried PGO, and PG full stocks. I use the Knoxx CompStock instead.
 
I have weak, girlish arms and I highly doubt that I could control a PGO shotgun. I absolutely love my Grizzly with a collapsing knoxx stock on it. With a PGO, all the recoil is absorbed by your wrists and that can't possibly be good in the long run. And after watching the guy getting his teeth knocked out, I think I'll pass. ;)
 
Shotguns with a shoulder stock with pistol grip I find much easier to manipulate than with just a standard stock.....but I'm not shotgun expert either.
 
One thing people (myself included :redface: ) tend to forget when discussing pistol-gripped shotguns is, perhaps understandably, the other end of the shotguns (i.e. the chokes).....;)

There's got to be some connection with the distaste for PGO-shotguns, and the fact that few seldom have "tighter" chokes....:wave:
 
for Home defense it could be useful. Other than that it only looks badass. And personnaly I think a mossberg 500/remington 870 with a top folding stock looks way more badass than a pistol grip. The only people I've met that were able to shoot straight and handle the shock of a pistol grip shotgun were way more beef than the average joe
 
I think this is a better solution if you want a short shotgun

30402_430579515515_526315515_6153049_3892847_n.jpg


Above is 18" barrel Mossberg, below is 14" barrel HP-9 with a Hogue "youth" butt stock installed.

As you can see, it's only a couple of inches longer than a 18" shotgun with a pistol grip would be. But much easier to control. Just gotta keep your thumb down the side of the pistol grip, rather than over it, so you don't bonk yourself in the nose!:)
 
Hugo_Stiglitz said:
The only people I've met that were able to shoot straight and handle the shock of a pistol grip shotgun were way more beef than the average joe
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I was gonna say I had no problem other than a sore hand after about 40 rounds, which I would have with my 44magnum Super Blackhack, as well. Then I saw this comment, looked down, and perhaps that's why it didn't bother me too much ;)

Having fired a PGO, I cannot imagine what the thought process is, that would go into the fools who'd aim it right in front of their faces. Even my no-gun-knowledge-whatsoever Wife, saw a vid of some dork doing that, and said, before it happened, "Oh my god, it's gonna hit his face."

Tom Knapp said it best, that when you are aiming a shotgun from the hip, you do have a sight picture, it's just a different one. Instead of a very pointy triangle, it is a very obtuse one. Do I think I'm Tom Knapp, no. Would I go hunting with a PGO, no. Would I feel adequately able to defend myself with a PGO from 2 or 4 legged threats, yes. Firing at paper targets, I found my patterns were going where I wanted them, and not any appreciably worse than with a full stock. A full stock is quicker, of course, but not by so much that I feel handicapped by the PGO.

As for breaching doors, the only doors I've ever had to "breach" were pretty responsive to a knee. The doors used in most residential applications, are disturbingly easy to get through.
 
curtmg said:
I was gonna say I had no problem other than a sore hand after about 40 rounds, which I would have with my 44magnum Super Blackhack, as well. Then I saw this comment, looked down, and perhaps that's why it didn't bother me too much ;)

Having fired a PGO, I cannot imagine what the thought process is, that would go into the fools who'd aim it right in front of their faces. Even my no-gun-knowledge-whatsoever Wife, saw a vid of some dork doing that, and said, before it happened, "Oh my god, it's gonna hit his face."

Tom Knapp said it best, that when you are aiming a shotgun from the hip, you do have a sight picture, it's just a different one. Instead of a very pointy triangle, it is a very obtuse one. Do I think I'm Tom Knapp, no. Would I go hunting with a PGO, no. Would I feel adequately able to defend myself with a PGO from 2 or 4 legged threats, yes. Firing at paper targets, I found my patterns were going where I wanted them, and not any appreciably worse than with a full stock. A full stock is quicker, of course, but not by so much that I feel handicapped by the PGO.

As for breaching doors, the only doors I've ever had to "breach" were pretty responsive to a knee. The doors used in most residential applications, are disturbingly easy to get through.
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Do you think a PGO shotgun is adequate at all ranges? I would say outside 10 maybe 15 yards you're going to have a hard time putting lead to flesh. Another point to ponder. How does one "functionally" operate a PGO shotgun with one hand? A standard stock is doable but I don't see it for a PGO shotgun.

TDC
 
I have one as my "truck gun" and it's served as a backpacked bear defence gun.

I know it's a shotgun that is less than perfect, but it still provides a good chunk of firepower in a fairly small package.
 
TDC said:
Do you think a PGO shotgun is adequate at all ranges? I would say outside 10 maybe 15 yards you're going to have a hard time putting lead to flesh. Another point to ponder. How does one "functionally" operate a PGO shotgun with one hand? A standard stock is doable but I don't see it for a PGO shotgun.

TDC
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I don't think that a shotgun, is adequate at all ranges, regardless of stock. One handed, I can fire no worse with a PGO than with a large revolver (10.5inch SBH), the only issue is cycling the action, which would be an issue with a full stock as well.

I'd of course, rather have a rifle than a shotgun, for of any kind of defense. I'll admit that a PGO is not the ideal in many ways, but if it's a choice between a PGO in your hands, or a full stocked firearm you left in the truck, well that should be pretty obvious. The biggest advantage to a PGO is you are more likely to bring it with you, as it's generally easy to pack. If you don't mind carrying a full stocked firearm, than that particular arguement does not apply to you. I'm not saying PGO's are the best, just that they are not useless, if you take the time to learn how to use them.
 
the poll numbers are interesting - not what i expected. i voted undecided, but for the sake of encouraging more constructive debate:

the average web thug that fuels the PG stereotype posts a youtube video of himself (or his unfortunate 90lb girlfriend) firing a 3" slug their first time using a PGO.

..but if someone gun-savvy and patient put in many hours of practice with a PG shotgun with appropriate ammo (2 3/4" managed recoil slugs, lighter buckshot), do you believe they can ever reach a level of proficiency where it could be regarded as an effective weapon, or can the handicap of not having a full stock never be overcome?
 
more food for thought:
[youtube]9bCWcumvKA8[/youtube]
^hes right handed but left eye dominant, hence the unusual way hes looking down the sights.
those are 2 3/4" foster slugs... has anyone tested a PG shotgun with managed recoil slugs? were you able to use the sights? how was your accuracy?
 
manbearpig said:
the poll numbers are interesting - not what i expected. i voted undecided, but for the sake of encouraging more constructive debate:

the average web thug that fuels the PG stereotype posts a youtube video of himself (or his unfortunate 90lb girlfriend) firing a 3" slug their first time using a PGO.

..but if someone gun-savvy and patient put in many hours of practice with a PG shotgun with appropriate ammo (2 3/4" managed recoil slugs, lighter buckshot), do you believe they can ever reach a level of proficiency where it could be regarded as an effective weapon, or can the handicap of not having a full stock never be overcome?
Click to expand...

i would say not- it's at best a hip firing solution, as the gun TWISTS in your hands as well recoils back- at least my defender does- the next gun i get is going to have a CONVENTIONAL stock, as it takes too long to deploy the folded pistol grip- there's a choate on it right now- i've found out that if i need to carry a pump gun, it's far better to get one that's actually shorter, and not a GIMMICK- chances are, when you need it, it a shtf situation, and you're going to FORGET about deploying the stock, and there go your front teeth
 
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