Pistol-Gripped Shorty Shotgun League

Jay said:
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P.S. Seeing as how the Modified tube on the build was better at further distances, anyone thought of having their Tac-14 threaded for tubes?
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Myself I decided to extend the range of my Tac-14 with ammo that uses a Flightcontrol wad (Federal) or Versatite wad (Hornady). This ammo tightens patterns quite a bit ....

I am even developing a low recoil upland grouse load right now with the Flightcontrol wad .... and just for my Tac-14 ....
 
Brobee said:
I got a new “baby alligator” this spring!

Here’s a video I made that shows how I’ve started working on getting practiced up as well as using it for a somewhat unique pest problem we encountered:


Geologist: I LOVE your old school mossberg setup!

0faustus0: I am go to try the rubber grip. Nice marine mag!

master-g : your two-tone shockwave looks awesome. I found that gluing on an xs sight systems big dot bead solved a similar elevation issue I experience with my shockwave.

Bryben: need pics!

scout3006 + diananike + 870P: I wish I could find some #1 buckshot, I would love to take it on a deer hunt!
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Nice!
 
I just installed a new sling on my Tac-14 Marine .... it still has a 3 finger loop .... so I can shoot it with the 3 finger loop or without ....

Tac-14_Marine_lowres.jpg
 
testosteronecyp said:
I want an 8.5" mag fed grizzly. Anyone know if they fire with the folding stock collapsed?
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Are you looking for a "restricted" firearm? 8.5" grizzly with folding stock would be a "Restricted" firearm.

My Tac-14 with a 14" barrel just barely makes it over 26" inches (overall length) ... and which makes it a Non-restricted firearm.
 
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0faustus0 said:
Are you looking for a "restricted" firearm? 8.5" grizzly with folding stock would be a "Restricted" firearm.

My Tac-14 with a 14" barrel just barely makes it over 26" inches (overall length) ... and which makes it a Non-restricted firearm.
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Actually regarding shotguns if it is made that way it doesn't matter. Lots of guys were rocking pistol grips on their 8.5" Grizzlies before the RCMP lab said they consider it restricted despite the law clearly saying otherwise. You cannot operate a pump shotgun with one hand!
 
B said:
Actually regarding shotguns if it is made that way it doesn't matter. Lots of guys were rocking pistol grips on their 8.5" Grizzlies before the RCMP lab said they consider it restricted despite the law clearly saying otherwise. You cannot operate a pump shotgun with one hand!
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B, can you please clarify what you are saying there?

As far as I know, the firearms act is pretty clear .... overall length of 26" (660 mm) and over and the gun is non restricted ... anything under 26" is Restricted, meaning you need an RPAL ... and you can only shoot it at a range ... and you need an ATT to transport it .... And if you get caught without those .... you are risking a criminal record ....

https://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/firearms/classes-firearms
 
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I don't have the relevant sections available unfortunately. This all went down several years ago. It shouldn't be too hard to dig up if you have time.
 
B said:
I don't have the relevant sections available unfortunately. This all went down several years ago. It shouldn't be too hard to dig up if you have time.
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https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/page-20.html#h-117002

From the Criminal Code ....

--------------- Quote ---------------
restricted firearm means

(a) a handgun that is not a prohibited firearm,

(b) a firearm that

(i) is not a prohibited firearm,

(ii) has a barrel less than 470 mm in length, and

(iii) is capable of discharging centre-fire ammunition in a semi-automatic manner,

(c) a firearm that is designed or adapted to be fired when reduced to a length of less than 660 mm by folding, telescoping or otherwise, or

(d) a firearm of any other kind that is prescribed to be a restricted firearm; (arme à feu à autorisation restreinte)

--------------- End Quote ---------------
 
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B said:
Actually regarding shotguns if it is made that way it doesn't matter. Lots of guys were rocking pistol grips on their 8.5" Grizzlies before the RCMP lab said they consider it restricted despite the law clearly saying otherwise. You cannot operate a pump shotgun with one hand!
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no, I believe you'r'e thinking of the manufactured barrel law. You can put a manufactured 14" barrel on a shotgun that started with a 28" barrel, as long as the OAL does not drop below 660mm. You can't go lop off 14" with a hacksaw in your garage though. Highly frowned upon.

if the gun is manufactured OR modified to be less than 660mm you now have a restricted/prohibited on your hands.
 
0faustus0 said:
https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/page-20.html#h-117002


--------------- Quote ---------------
restricted firearm means

(a) a handgun that is not a prohibited firearm,

(b) a firearm that

(i) is not a prohibited firearm,

(ii) has a barrel less than 470 mm in length, and

(iii) is capable of discharging centre-fire ammunition in a semi-automatic manner,

(c) a firearm that is designed or adapted to be fired when reduced to a length of less than 660 mm by folding, telescoping or otherwise, or

(d) a firearm of any other kind that is prescribed to be a restricted firearm; (arme à feu à autorisation restreinte)

--------------- End Quote ---------------
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Would someone be kind enough to clarify something for me?

One of the two Shockwave barrel lengths available is reported by Mossberg to be 14.375", which equals about 365mm, which is, obviously, under 470mm.

Because the Shockwave with that length barrel is nevertheless classified as NR, I must assume that parts B (ii) and B (iii) of the above regulation are actually part of the same statement -- that is, the less-than-470mm barrel length restriction only applies to semi-automatic centre-fire firearms, not pump-action centre-fire firearms. (However, regardless of barrel length, the overall length must never fall under 660mm.)

Is this interpretation correct? (Even if my interpretation is correct, I still think that the 14" Shockwave might be sitting on a legally slippery slope to R status.)

Thanks.
 
And swapping a stock for a pistol grip by taking out a bolt and putting in a shorter bolt qualifies as 'modifying' or 'manufacturing'? Not talking about shortening a barrel. Just asking about putting a grip legally sold in Canada, made for a short barrel shotgun of a particular model and not for anything else, onto a short barrel shotgun of that exact model. This 1 minute operation involving an Allen key constitutes 'conversion' from non-restricted to restricted? Seems a bit odd, considering how many of these guns are being sold new or used including a vertical pistol grip besides a plastic or wooden stock, part of the same package.

If this is the case - and I'm guessing it is - then if an owner of an 870 TAC-14 with an originally manufactured barrel of 12.5" length wishes to have a pack gun, a raptor type grip is the only practical option? I also see folding stocks now and then, but the hinge/mount stuff is usually a few inches long anyway, and I'd rather not have a stock on it. Brobee seems to do quite nicely with a raptor grip on his SBS for hunting and he's enjoying the much-reduced recoil of ~1200fps slugs and buckshot, something which appeals to me a lot. Been looking for a raptor grip but they seem to be about like hen's teeth in Canada. Two local gun shop employees have just shaken their heads when asked.
 
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Iloverevolvers said:
Would someone be kind enough to clarify something for me?

One of the two Shockwave barrel lengths available is reported by Mossberg to be 14.375", which equals about 365mm, which is, obviously, under 470mm.

Because the Shockwave with that length barrel is nevertheless classified as NR, I must assume that parts B (ii) and B (iii) of the above regulation are actually part of the same statement -- that is, the less-than-470mm barrel length restriction only applies to semi-automatic centre-fire firearms, not pump-action centre-fire firearms. (However, regardless of barrel length, the overall length must never fall under 660mm.)

Is this interpretation correct? (Even if my interpretation is correct, I still think that the 14" Shockwave might be sitting on a legally slippery slope to R status.)

Thanks.
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Iloverevolvers, this is my understanding as well!!

B (i), B (ii) and B (iii) go together .... so this applies to semi-auto firearms only.

The Shockwaves and Tac-14s have hit the Canadian market and they sell as non-restricted firearms and because they are manually operated (pump action) .... and they are slightly longer than 660 mm overall length.
 
GerardSamija said:
And swapping a stock for a pistol grip by taking out a bolt and putting in a shorter bolt qualifies as 'modifying' or 'manufacturing'? Not talking about shortening a barrel. Just asking about putting a grip legally sold in Canada, made for a short barrel shotgun of a particular model and not for anything else, onto a short barrel shotgun of that exact model. This 1 minute operation involving an Allen key constitutes 'conversion' from non-restricted to restricted? Seems a bit odd, considering how many of these guns are being sold new or used including a vertical pistol grip besides a plastic or wooden stock, part of the same package.

If this is the case - and I'm guessing it is - then if an owner of an 870 TAC-14 with an originally manufactured barrel of 12.5" length wishes to have a pack gun, a raptor type grip is the only practical option? I also see folding stocks now and then, but the hinge/mount stuff is usually a few inches long anyway, and I'd rather not have a stock on it. Brobee seems to do quite nicely with a raptor grip on his SBS for hunting and he's enjoying the much-reduced recoil of ~1200fps slugs and buckshot, something which appeals to me a lot. Been looking for a raptor grip but they seem to be about like hen's teeth in Canada. Two local gun shop employees have just shaken their heads when asked.
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Brobee started out with a Shockwave build a couple of years back.
At the time the Tac-14 and Shockwave were not available in Canada ... and he build his Shockwave with a 14" barrel and a Raptor grip. And I did the same to build a Tac-14 at the time. As long as the gun (pump shotgun) is over 660 mm in total length ... it is a non-restricted firearm, and it does not matter if it came that way from the factory .... or if it was build at home or in your garage with factory parts. (It needs to be a factory barrel though.)

However, I believe this thread is running off topic .... and was not supposed to be a legal thread about short barreled shotguns. If anybody still needs clarifications about the legal status of Tac-14s, Shockwaves, and short barreled shotguns .... how about we create a separate thread?
 
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0faustus0 said:
Brobee started out with a Shockwave build a couple of years back.
At the time the Tac-14 and Shockwave were not available in Canada ... and he build his Shockwave with a 14" barrel and a Raptor grip. And I did the same to build a Tac-14 at the time. As long as the gun (pump shotgun) is over 660 mm in total length ... it is a non-restricted firearm, and it does not matter if it came that way from the factory .... or if it was build at home or in your garage with factory parts. (It needs to be a factory barrel though.)

However, I believe this thread is running off topic .... and was not supposed to be a legal thread about short barreled shotguns. If anybody still needs clarifications about the legal status of Tac-14s, Shockwaves, and short barreled shotguns .... how about we create a separate thread?
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I'm all for it ............... as long as everything that is in this thread about legalities can be transferred to a new thread without much hassle (especially for me:)).
 
0faustus0 said:
Iloverevolvers, you can do it ... !!! ;)
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Very, very funny! But I'm of the old "he who smelt it, dealt it" school. ................ and as far as I can tell, the whole legalities issues were first "released" in the following post:
0faustus0 said:
Are you looking for a "restricted" firearm? 8.5" grizzly with folding stock would be a "Restricted" firearm.

My Tac-14 with a 14" barrel just barely makes it over 26" inches (overall length) ... and which makes it a Non-restricted firearm.
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........... which means ...............:)

Somewhat seriously though, the only thing I had left to contribute to legalities is to comment that it's amazing that Mossberg's Shockwave 14" version's overall length comes in just slightly UNDER the 660mm overall-length restriction for a NR firearm in Canada. I guess so does the Rem Tac 14. Is this purely a nice coincidence, or were Mossberg, Remington and maybe other shorty manufacturers given the NR go-ahead by whoever it is that classifies firearms in Canada? (You know, Mossberg and Remington said to the classifiers "will you classify a pump shotgun with these specifications NR? If so, we'll start bringing them into the Canadian makket." And the Canadian classifiers said "yes", and here they are.)

I also find the fact that Mossberg making a Shockwave with an 18.5" barrel also available in Canada to be more than just a bit curious. Was the Shockwave 14+" barrel version a sort of a "testing of the NR water" in the Canadian market for Mossberg, while the 18.5" is being sold by Mossberg as more of an NR "sure thing" for those less adventurous when it comes to pushing the limits of barrel lengths and, shall we say, "liberal" interpretations of barrel-length regulations?
 
Iloverevolvers said:
Very, very funny! But I'm of the old "he who smelt it, dealt it" school. ................ and as far as I can tell, the whole legalities issues were first "released" in the following post:

........... which means ...............:)

Somewhat seriously though, the only thing I had left to contribute to legalities is to comment that it's amazing that Mossberg's Shockwave 14" version's overall length comes in just slightly UNDER the 660mm overall-length restriction for a NR firearm in Canada. I guess so does the Rem Tac 14. Is this purely a nice coincidence, or were Mossberg, Remington and maybe other shorty manufacturers given the NR go-ahead by whoever it is that classifies firearms in Canada? (You know, Mossberg and Remington said to the classifiers "will you classify a pump shotgun with these specifications NR? If so, we'll start bringing them into the Canadian makket." And the Canadian classifiers said "yes", and here they are.)

I also find the fact that Mossberg making a Shockwave with an 18.5" barrel also available in Canada to be more than just a bit curious. Was the Shockwave 14+" barrel version a sort of a "testing of the NR water" in the Canadian market for Mossberg, while the 18.5" is being sold by Mossberg as more of an NR "sure thing" for those less adventurous when it comes to pushing the limits of barrel lengths and, shall we say, "liberal" interpretations of barrel-length regulations?
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Iloverevolvers, lol .... but yes Mea Culpa.

Here is my understanding .... up to recently the exportation of 14" barrels from the us was very restricted.
Yes, you were able to get 14" barrels in Canada ... but in limited supply and I suspect imported through some loopholes or over third countries. But these restrictions have been lifted by the Trump administration .... and now we are seeing lots and lots of 14" barreled shotguns being imported from the US.
 
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