Piston AR, best accuracy?

Ar180shooter said:
What exactly are you saying here?
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I'm saying your statement regarding a 7" twist being 'completely unnecessary' is not accurate.

Ar180shooter said:
Are you saying that a 1/7 twist is actually needed for a civvy shooting service rifle?
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I didn't say it is 'needed' nor would I say it is 'completely unnecessary'.
Wanna shoot SR? Shoot whatever you have or shoot whatever the hell suits your fancy.
The OP stated an 8 twist minimum (for the longer 77 SMK and similar no doubt) and a preferred 7 twist is sought in a potential new rifle.
As someone who actually shoots at 500m the OP probably knows what they want based on experience - to which I agree whole-heartily.
 
caramel said:
My next rifle will be mounted with a Bartlein SS 5R , 11.25 barrel, according to what they told me and all the reading i did, this barrel is a top shelf one... JP.
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And that has what to do with this thread? The OP is looking for a .223/5.56 rifle not a 7.62.

I'm with Cpt.Flan,
Who cares?

At least read the original post before you reply. :slap:
 
cr5 said:
And that has what to do with this thread? The OP is looking for a .223/5.56 rifle not a 7.62.

I'm with Cpt.Flan,
Who cares?

At least read the original post before you reply. :slap:
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It was interresting to learn that the barrel is what made accuracy instead of the DI or piston system, my post was in accordance with that... Sorry OP ... JP.
 
Bull#### meter is going crazy over here...

No. You said that because you just can't miss one opportunity to brag about your stuff... That was out of context. totally. Perhaps you should stop thinking everyone in here is stupid. Or perhaps you are the greatest? God is it you?
 
greentips said:
The ar with the better barrel wins, push rod or no push rod.
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No bull here, when i read that i was happy that i made the good choice, this was not an easy decision, but now i am comfy with it, the learning process is never over... JP.
 
greentips said:
The ar with the better barrel wins, push rod or no push rod.
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A bit unclear about what you're stating. So if both had the same barrel and free float handguards do you think the accuracy would be the same?

Take away all variables except the DI vs Piston system. The DI has more accuracy potential. You often see the much better barrel with the pistons to get on par accuracy with DI rifles that have decent normal barrels.

The only two mass produced AR rifles I've seen with a .5 moa guarantee out of the box are both DI systems.

Also of note the RCMP have had trials for both patrol and DM AR rifles. Both options picked were DI. Neither was the inexpensive option either. Whoever was making the choices lately seems to know what they are doing. I was pleasantly surprised by the picks.
 
Gunnerlove said:
Militec sucks, and the army is wrong, if you are not putting enough lube in the carrier to lube the gas rings you are not using enough lube.
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Ive been using it for two years, it works for me fine, although it becomes a bit gummy in cold weather the 1st couple of shots, so I don't recommend when the temp is near the freezing mark.
Warm hot weather its very good!
 
beltfed said:
I'm saying your statement regarding a 7" twist being 'completely unnecessary' is not accurate.



I didn't say it is 'needed' nor would I say it is 'completely unnecessary'.
Wanna shoot SR? Shoot whatever you have or shoot whatever the hell suits your fancy.
The OP stated an 8 twist minimum (for the longer 77 SMK and similar no doubt) and a preferred 7 twist is sought in a potential new rifle.
As someone who actually shoots at 500m the OP probably knows what they want based on experience - to which I agree whole-heartily.
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How is it not accurate? When is it an advantage if you're not loading VLD's heavier than 80gr one at a time?

Again, I think you're not understanding what I said. I even elaborated that a 1/7 is fine, but it doesn't do anything for you that a 1/8 can't do unless you're shooting bullets heavier than 80gr, which cannot be loaded to mag length. The OP mentioned what ammo he is shooting, and a 75gr bullet will stabilize in a 1/8, so a 1/7 twist is not necessary. It's not "wrong" or a bad choice, but there is no good reason to prefer it over a 1/8.

I also hope you're not implying that I don't shoot at 500m, because I do (and I don't mean to boast, but I'm very good at it too).
 
I just glanced through this whole thread, was hoping to see a target result/photo of a pws shooting at 500m.
A string of deliberated and a string of rapid for comparison, that would be really interesting data to see.
If I have missed it please kindly point out.
Much appreciated.
 
The last Ora SVC match in Ottawa was won by a shooter using a c7, the second place was won by a hk mr with a turned down barrel.

The top 3 shooters all used ball ammo.

You do your job as a shooter, the rifle will deliver, push rod or not. They all deliver enough precision.
 
Another question for the PWS AR guys...IF you're running the cheap-n-cheerful brass-cased Norinco M193/5.56 NATO ammo, are you setting 1 or 2 on the gas regulator? I've left my MK114 on 1 for now which is supposed to be "normal" and is supposed to work for most cartridges. So far (500rds) I've not had a single failure and there doesn't appear to be any abnormal wear indications on the bolt carrier or anywhere else for that matter. Recoil is noticeable but well within expectations for this rifle and casing ejection is rather enthusiastic - brass streaks on deflector. However, setting 2 is supposed to be for "military" or "hot(ter)" loads so I was just wondering what your experiences have been like with this ammunition in this rifle? Should I leave the regulator on 1 or take it down a notch to 2? Your thoughts...?

Thanks in advance,

Fly
 
I am running a PWS MK112 mod1 and I have 800 rds Norc through on setting one no issues. The only thing I have noticed is that some of the PWS lowers have come with a standard weight buffer when their literature and website say they come with an H2 . I ended swapping mine out for the correct PWS marked H2 and it smoothed felt recoil out nicely.At my club we have about 6 people with PWS rifles and they are running on position 1 no issues
 
greentips said:
The last Ora SVC match in Ottawa was won by a shooter using a c7, the second place was won by a hk mr with a turned down barrel.

The top 3 shooters all used ball ammo.

You do your job as a shooter, the rifle will deliver, push rod or not. They all deliver enough precision.
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Agreed 100%, push rod or not is irrelevant!
The army shooters with the C7 and IVI 62gr , ELCAN C79 3.4x shoot amazing so this alone proves its mostly the skill of the shooter.
As for the original post and question I think his issues are either his rifle is the problem or its his reloads...
 
My own curiousity is not about DI vs piston in general, but about PWS. Heck Swiss Arms are piston guns.

I have seen a good shooter shooting his PWS with an extra 2 MOA vertical-stringing doing a 10 round string, whereas with same ammo he was GTG with his DI doing rapids. It was a repeatable experiment so I would take shooter error out of the equation. And also with that particular PWS, vertical stringing was not seen during cold barrel/piston snaps which adds to the mystery.

BTW, I know you guys and you know me :) I was at the same match GT talked about so I know the HK did great ;)
 
ops_3329 said:
I am running a PWS MK112 mod1 and I have 800 rds Norc through on setting one no issues. The only thing I have noticed is that some of the PWS lowers have come with a standard weight buffer when their literature and website say they come with an H2 . I ended swapping mine out for the correct PWS marked H2 and it smoothed felt recoil out nicely.At my club we have about 6 people with PWS rifles and they are running on position 1 no issues
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Thank you sir for the quick reply. I'll have a look at my buffer but the recoil isn't bad at all, just a wee bit more noticeable than my friends DD rifle using the same ammo. I was merely curious...


'Fly
 
I'm nobody, and by no means a armour or gun smith, But here is what i would start with.

1: sounds like you were in the CF, so you know to check that all the breaks in the 3 gas rings need to off set each other to make the best seal possible.
2: you said you were going to check the fit of the gas tube into the gas key, if the tube is worn this will lead to less gas acting on the bolt carrier. The tube is a softer steal than the carrier key, it will do the wearing. This is a $12-$15 dollar fix, might be worth wile to do anyway.
3: This is a long shot, but it happened to me and another fella (lowers with lots of use), debris got built up at the end of the buffer tube, causing failures to fire when the weapon got just a little dirty, cause the dirt (slowing the action) mixed with the small build up at the end of the tube was enough to cause short stroking. A long flat tip screw driver to scrape the end of the tube was enough to produce some debris for possible indication. Again a fairly inexpensive tube replacement.

Good luck.
 
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