Piston vs Impingement?

jonyork

jonyork

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Hey CGN,

Looking to get my first AR15 in the next few weeks, and I am doing some research. I cannot decide between Piston or GI. I am looking for input from people who have owned and operated either.

I want to know about jams, picky on ammo, cleanup, shooter comfort and feel, longevity, and anything else you can think of.

Thanks!
 
jonyork said:
Hey CGN,

Looking to get my first AR15 in the next few weeks, and I am doing some research. I cannot decide between Piston or GI. I am looking for input from people who have owned and operated either.

I want to know about jams, picky on ammo, cleanup, shooter comfort and feel, longevity, and anything else you can think of.

Thanks!
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It would be helpful if you specified which brands of piston and DI guns you are considering. Otherwise, your question is a bit like "coupe vs. sedan". I'd take a Porsche coupe over a Chevy sedan and a BMW sedan over a Ford coupe, if you know what I'm getting at.
 
I prefer a piston operated system, albeit only a rifle that was designed from the get go to use a piston driven action.

Something about the idea of taking a rifle that was designed to work on impinged gas directly into the center of the bolt to run it through the unlock, extract and feed cycle and just changing it to having a piston battering it back makes me nervous.

That being said I've never personally fired one or wanted to because I've never had a single issue with any AR15's feeding or cycling. And I've shot them hard and dirty (not mine, all on DND :D). Seems that in the very over-saturated AR15 market someone came up with a money making classic of exacerbating the old myth of the "unreliable AR15" and created and put a price tag on a solution to a problem that never existed to sell it to people who would fall for it.

All I can really say about converting or buying a piston upper AR is why?
 
DI was good enough for my C7, and has served me fine for my personal AR. Mine gets used a fair bit; both training and competition.

Piston may run cleaner and cooler, but the most I'll shoot in a weekend of competition is 4-500 rounds... DI more than handles that without problem.

EDIT: IMHO comfort and contollability of DI will be improved running a mid-length gas system rather than carbine. Look for this option if you can.

Save the money not buying piston and get yourself a reputable DI rifle. You'll be fine!
 
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Is it Monday already?

You should get DI. The whole piston thing is snake oil.

KAC, Colt Canada (they've done quite well for us over the course of the last decades), Colt, LMT, DD, BCM (in no particular order) seem to know how to build a decent AR. I'd check those out.
 
alright, for the Piston, I was thinking of the ruger SR-556FB

for the GI, I was thinking windham armory AR15 5.56

both roughly the same price range at SFRC, for the quad rail versions.

Good point you guys all bring up for the GI for sure. I guess the GI is easier to take down and clean as well right?
 
Travis Bickle said:
Seems that in the very over-saturated AR15 market someone came up with a money making classic of exacerbating the old myth of the "unreliable AR15" and created and put a price tag on a solution to a problem that never existed to sell it to people who would fall for it.[/B]

All I can really say about converting or buying a piston upper AR is why?
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The first piston AR (HK416) wasn't even available for civilian purchase for many years. It was developed at Delta Force's request after HK successfully converted the Brit's SA80 from a walking stick to a more-or-less functional weapon. So I wouldn't exactly say that the piston-driven AR was a solution to a problem that didn't exist. When done right, a piston AR will be more reliable. U.S. military tests have shown the HK416 to be more reliable than the M4. But the key phrase is "when done right". Just because HK makes a good piston AR doesn't mean that any piston AR will be better than any DI AR. That's why I asked the OP to clarify which brands he's considering.

OP, it's DI. Direct Impingement.
 
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Depending on exactly what setup it is, piston guns usually end up being a bit more front heavy, so if you're looking for an ultralight race gun it may not be the best choice.

Piston guns are just as dirty as DI guns, the fouling comes from the ammo after all, same ammo means same dirt. It's just located in different spots.

If you do get a piston gun, get one that was designed that way, not as a conversion kit. It can compromise your bolt carrier. Most people don't shoot enough to really push it, but you can get some longevity issues.

There's great options available these days. My first was a Daniel Defense M4V5 from Wolverine Supplies. Great gun, but I sold it because I'd feel bad butchering it to do the frankenbuild I wanted.

A proper cleaning schedule ensures that you don't run into issues. You don't have to scrub the barrel after every shot like a benchrest shooter, but if you keep buildups to a minimum you should never have any real failures.

The most important thing is proper lubrication. There's no magic solution, different environments and uses require different preparation. Right now it's just about -30C outside, so if I wanted to use my rifle out there I'd recommend a complete cleaning and degreasing and then use some graphite dry lube. If I were to move to the wet coast, I'd pretty much fill my bathtub with oil and dunk the entire gun in, if I went over to Whateveristan with the ever present dust I'd only use a few drops of oil for the whole gun to avoid dust getting stuck and gumming it up.

Lubrication more than anything seems to be what causes problems.
 
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I have used both DI and piston. DI C7 and piston C1,both used in extreme environments. I much prefer the DI. Less moving parts, less parts to clean, less parts to wear out or break and best of all less parts to tinker with to tweek the rifle. Just my opinion.
 
all very good points everyone, many thanks!

PitBull, why the Windham? because its DI, or because its Windham?

Any AR brands I should avoid?
 
The disadvantages of piston ARs (e.g. added weight, more moving parts to disturb accuracy) are real. The advantages are not.

For the price range you're looking at I'd seriously consider a Colt, Daniel Defense or higher end M&P15.
 
The most important thing is proper lubrication. There's no magic solution, different environments and uses require different preparation. Right now it's just about -30C outside, so if I wanted to use my rifle out there I'd recommend a complete cleaning and degreasing and then use some graphite dry lube.
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The references need to be updated. Graphite is for FNC1 or C6. Graphite is not recommended for use on anodized aluminum. Without a modern lube, best COA for Arctic use is bone dry.
 
I say Windham because there employees have a lot of expierence with ARs look them up and read. Also DI is all you will need trust me . I own both and there is no advantage other than a gas will run a little longer before cleaning
 
DI for us recreational shooters. They work thousands of round without problem. Just keep couple gas rings on you and clean the gun once a month. I don't think I've shot the gun hot enough to encounter problems with ID (especially when we are cap to 10)ans I use my AR for practical shoots/3gun. 30-40 rounds in a min in the course and shoot fast .di is also more customizable with hand guard selections.
 
KAC are DI, thats not a recreational use rifle. Colt Canada are DI, not a recreational use rifle either. And what about Colt m4, m16, etc those are DI, not recreational use either, lots of rag head alluhah ackbar mofos sent to see their virgins with those. Some of those rifles will see 1000 rounds fired in a single engagement, thats running the baby really hot.
Guys, even an AK47 needs to be cleaned.
 
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