Pitch Angle

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MK2750

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Sylvan Lake, Ab
What started as an experiment to reduce muzzle lift on a rifle lead me down the rabbit hole of pitch angle.

My internet search lead me to mostly shotgun forums. Some claiming pitch has nothing to do with point of aim but is important to reduce recoil and encourage a quick second shot. Other claiming it does influence not only a consistent mount but POI.

I have a couple of very nice shotguns I love to hate. I can hit clays with them consistently but very often miss a very straight forward flush. In a nutshell, I crawl the stock and cant the gun to the left. If I think about it, I can catch it but more often than not the first shot is a warning only. So next time out I am carrying a different gun.

I can repeat this poor mount with any gun that has even a slight amount of cast or has excessive drop. Basically any nice European gun. Give me a straight stock American gun like a Remington or Browning made for the US market and no problems.

Anyway, I put some washers under the butt plate near the top and I can not repeat the poor mount. I want to make something a little more solid before trying it with live rounds but it appears I can mount the gun consistently without a second thought. I was actually thinking of selling this particular gun but now am excited about trying it with some shims.

Has anyone experimented with pitch angle? Did it make a difference in POI or simply adjust muzzle jump?
 
I lost a lot of weight and my trap gun suddenly was belting me hard(cheek slap) and I was missing a lot and no idea where which after 35+ years of shooting was really mind boggling as I was always able to correct my mistakes previously. I finally went to a shotgun shooting instructor to assess my issues. The cheek slap was a result of pitch and after shooting on a grease board it was found my poi had changed immensely. There was over 10" of poi change shooting at the grease board from 16 yards(4" below poa from 6" above) where the gun previously shot for me. I made a spacer to fit between the recoil pad and butt plate of the RAD1a on the stock and when done my poi was where I wanted it and cheek slap was eliminated. Yes pitch can affect poi, absolutely and the best part is now when I miss I know why(me)not where(gun fit). Lol
 
I am going the other way unfortunately with the weight. A person gets to a point in life when they can get a shotgun they always dreamed about and can't shoot it as well as a single shot Cooey. I actually picked up a full choke 840 20 from a local seller just to check the theory and sure enough it shouldered and hit clays no problem.
 
You can experiment with pitch angle by placing washers between the recoil pad and stock on some guns. Can't do that on a thin, hard plastic butt plate but on guns with a pad there is nothing to break. try it.
 
OP kick-eez makes plastic pitch spacers. They fit between the stock and butt plate or recoil pad. They are made oversize so are grind to fit. They are $10 or make your own from a piece of plastic or even wood if you desire. It's easy to do if you have access to a saw and belt sander or you can even cut the correct angle into your stock if you know how much you need to remove for the correct angle.
 
Thanks for the help. I will make some shims and maybe look at a more permanent fix down the road. It has a wood butt plate and a very nice stock so I don't want to get hacking at it.

Reading on trap shooting forums and the consensus seems to be that POI does not change. That seems impossible as at the very least the LOP will be altered. The gun shoulders completely different for me so hopefully that means a more consistent mount in the field.
 
MK2750 said:
Thanks for the help. I will make some shims and maybe look at a more permanent fix down the road. It has a wood butt plate and a very nice stock so I don't want to get hacking at it.

Reading on trap shooting forums and the consensus seems to be that POI does not change. That seems impossible as at the very least the LOP will be altered. The gun shoulders completely different for me so hopefully that means a more consistent mount in the field.
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Yes it surely can affect poi. I was told it didn't affect it either but changing mine changed the poi on the pattern board and the difference in hitting targets consistently and well was significant.
 
rembolt said:
In your case spank did have to shim the heel or toe of the recoil pad to raise your poi ?
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I had to taper from the top to bottom inward towards the toe. My spacer is 1/4" thick on top and tapers to 1/32" on bottom. In testing I needed four 1/16" washers added at the top of the recoil pad to reduce the cheek slap. A fifth was tried but cheek slap returned so four(1/4") was the magic number. I had a piece of 3/8" thick plastic spacer material so I sanded it down to what I needed on a flat belt sander then shaped it to fit between my recoil pad and the butt plate. The end result was no more cheek slap and a poi where I was looking once again resulting in targets centred in the pattern. :d
 
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Very interesting I changed out the pad on my 725 sporting .I now seem to have to float the target a bit more .I haven't been able to shoot the gun on paper yet to confirm poi. the oem pad is about the same thickness at comb and toe 1".the new pachmayr pad I installed is thinner over all than the oem pad .8" thick compared to 1" for the oem . however the new pad is thicker at the toe than it is at the comb by about 1/8" . so what your saying kind of confirms what I was thinking . a trip to the pattern board is order next time at the range .
 
Every browning shotgun I own I had to shim to get the POI where it needed to be for me. Losing weight also screws me up and I have to adjust again but I am talking like 100 pounds also

Cheers
 
If you increase the pitch too much, you will find on recoil the pad will 'roll up' on the shoulder and the stock will slap your cheek bone harder than before... found that out 50 years ago with a trap shooter... he shot a lot and found the toe of the stock was digging into him on recoil... and when shooting 500 rounds he would get very bruised by the toe. The shotgun had zero pitch. I increased the pitch considerably. (about 4 inches) He liked the stock fit, it felt good... He tried it out and that is when he discovered the 'slap' on the cheekbone... we diagnosed the new problem and changed the pitch to more normal... about an inch at the muzzle.
 
I have only had an issue with pitch, with one shotgun , and that was a used gun, that someone had shortened, and installed another recoil pad. The point of impact wasn't as noticeable as the cheek slap. Changing the recoil pad to one with a different shape cured the issue.
 
guntech;[URL="tel:18776422" said:
18776422[/URL]]If you increase the pitch too much, you will find on recoil the pad will 'roll up' on the shoulder and the stock will slap your cheek bone harder than before... found that out 50 years ago with a trap shooter... he shot a lot and found the toe of the stock was digging into him on recoil... and when shooting 500 rounds he would get very bruised by the toe. The shotgun had zero pitch. I increased the pitch considerably. (about 4 inches) He liked the stock fit, it felt good... He tried it out and that is when he discovered the 'slap' on the cheekbone... we diagnosed the new problem and changed the pitch to more normal... about an inch at the muzzle.
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Pitch on mine are about 1.5" to the centre of the bore.
 
Spank may fool some but many of us know his problem with slap started when he sold his last remington and went to some higher end trap guns :)

8xLHO3z.jpg
 
3macs1 said:
Spank may fool some but many of us know his problem with slap started when he sold his last remington and went to some higher end trap guns :)

8xLHO3z.jpg
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What model of Remington is that in the picture? I don't ever recall seeing that catalogued but then you have a few years on me... so maybe that one was available while I was still just a gleam in my fathers eye! ;)
 
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