please delete.

alberta guy said:
This is going to be my last post on this topic. I can see i am hurting peoples feeling on this. Yes you people have skills and have shot five, five round groups the averages under a 1/2". To pass the challenge. I have done it too with my savage. But I just want you to prove you can do it all day long with your chosen gun an ammo. Not once a summer when you get lucky like i did and many else have. Like I said I got lucky for those five groups but I have no been able to do it since. I have been real real close but not succsesfull. That is why I do not put my pictures on the internet. Best group 25 shot 5 group challenge. Yah, under 1/2" for sure. Everyday shooting... most likely not going to happen for me again any time soon.
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I’ll call your bluff.

Post your “lucky” pics here.

Otherwise, you’re just... “That” Guy. Every hobby has them. “Oh yeah eh, I ride a Hyabusa too eh, but I just though I’d leave it home today and take the 87 Magna out for a change...”. Uh huh. Right.

For the record, my name is also not on that list. Not for any altruistic purpose like the OP, but rather just because I suck sufficiently. (I also don’t ride a Hyabusa) :p
 
I haven't been able to complete the challenge yet. Do plenty of shooting for groups and do plenty of tinkering and ammo testing with my 522 but have yet to string the 5 solo groups under 1/2". It's a tough challenge without a high quality rifle, prime conditions and ammo to suit your rifle.

I've found a lot of fun in doing a full box test. Shoot an entire box, 10 groups and count every shot. Record an average group size and best group size. I do this most trips to the range. I find this gives a really realistic measure of what your rifle and you can do. It also gives you great comparable data. Nothing against the 1/2" challenge I think it's a great goal to strive for. But for lesser quality rifles that aren't as likely to reliably put down 5 sub half inch groups day in day out I think recording a box average is great use of ammo.
 
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The original poster clearly doesn't understand all the factors involved in consistantly shooting small groups.
 
If there was going to be an alternative challenge of some kind, it would be neat to have a “one shot cold barrel” challenge. Something that would more closely represent a hunting type situation where the rifle is fired without a warm up, and only the first shot counts.

You could tape a 1/4” washer to a paper, and to successfully complete the challenge, you’ll need to put the bullet through the washer without touching it. Add some rules for mandatory cool down times, copy over most of the other rules from the 1/2moa challenge, and bobs your uncle.

I’m sure I’d suck at that challenge too, but I’d have fun breaking washers and trying!



Side note, writing that made me recall a time with my grandfather long ago, when he would entertain us with little trick shots with his .22. He would lay a washer flat across the top of an empty glass bottle, then shoot the washer off without breaking the bottle. He’d also split bullets on an axe head and light strike-anywhere matches. There were more, but I can’t recall them now. I was probably only 6 at the time. Good memories :)

Happy New Year Everyone!
 
alberta guy said:
Yes you people have skills and have shot five, five round groups the averages under a 1/2". To pass the challenge. I have done it too with my savage.
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No, you have not... you already stated that you "got lucky" and shot "one row" of five sub 1/2" groups in the midst of a greater number of groups... that is NOT the same as starting a clean target an intentionally shooting five sub 1/2" groups.


alberta guy said:
I just want you to prove you can do it all day long with your chosen gun an ammo. Not once a summer when you get lucky like i did and many else have. Like I said I got lucky for those five groups but I have no been able to do it since. I have been real real close but not succsesfull. That is why I do not put my pictures on the internet. Best group 25 shot 5 group challenge. Yah, under 1/2" for sure. Everyday shooting... most likely not going to happen for me again any time soon.
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You are an obtuse little man... making no sense and stirring a pot that does not require stirring... everything you wrote above goes to disprove your own point. If you are going to stand on a soapbox, at least try to make sense.

As for the "5 for 5" 1/2" challenge... my issue is time... when I do get time for the range, I have other priorities... some day when time is not an issue, I will give it a go, I have several capable rifles, but it would be fun to try it with an unexpected platform.
 
CameronMac said:
I've found a lot of fun in doing a full box test. Shoot an entire box, 10 groups and count every shot. Record an average group size and best group size. I do this most trips to the range. I find this gives a really realistic measure of what your rifle and you can do. It also gives you great comparable data. Nothing against the 1/2" challenge I think it's a great goal to strive for. But for lesser quality rifles that aren't as likely to reliably put down 5 sub half inch groups day in day out I think recording a box average is great use of ammo.
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Great idea, makes sense and anyone can do it and is more to see results then competing. Flyers, pulled shots and everything!

I probably have enough targets from the 3 rifles I have in that thread to post, however they would average under 1/2" but not every group under.
 
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This thread is kinda silly and IMO, the OP might be stirring the pot. The logic is nonsensical to me: "I did not complete this challenge as per the contest rules but did shoot one random 1/2" 5x5 string therefore the results are meaningless."

I guess I'm not sure what the purpose of the post is. If you're suggesting that maybe some shooters/rifles aren't consistent 1/2" performers, you might be right but what does it matter? We have a challenge with detailed rules to follow and if you meet all the requirements, you're added to the list. Congratulations!

The issue is defining consistency and perhaps the "1/2" all day" claim. I don't think others are taking that phrase so literally. That said, if it's data you want there's lots of it here. Check out the posts/list and you'll see the same rifles and often the same shooters completing the challenge many times over.

I can confidently tell you that you did "luck-in" to a 0.5" 5x5 with the Mark II because frankly, they aren't up to it. I did all the upgrades under the sun and still didn't get there. I had an awesome 1/2" to 3/4" shooter with most ammo. Beautiful rifle but not meant for serious target work. Once I got a CZ, match ammo and warm weather, I wasn't long completing this challenge. I missed it a few times by one shot on the target paper. If we were to talk averages with match ammo, I'll bet my 452 averages under 0.5" across several attempts and that was one of my own criticisms of the challenge for a long time. That said, the problem at that point was my shooting, not the rifle.

TLDR; It takes a lot of gear, time and effort to complete this challenge (not to mention ammo) so please don't take it away from those who made the list.
 
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CameronMac said:
I've found a lot of fun in doing a full box test. Shoot an entire box, 10 groups and count every shot. Record an average group size and best group size. I do this most trips to the range. I find this gives a really realistic measure of what your rifle and you can do. It also gives you great comparable data. Nothing against the 1/2" challenge I think it's a great goal to strive for. But for lesser quality rifles that aren't as likely to reliably put down 5 sub half inch groups day in day out I think recording a box average is great use of ammo.
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I like this idea! While I enjoy following the 1/2" Challenge thread I don't have the place to try (nearby) nor the quality ammo (I'm cheap:)). I'm happy to shoot my "middle of the road" bolt-gun with cheap CCI Blazer.

CamerMac....do you have a link/pic to the target you use for your full Box Ammo challenge? I think you may be onto something.....
 
CameronMac said:
I haven't been able to complete the challenge yet. Do plenty of shooting for groups and do plenty of tinkering and ammo testing with my 522 but have yet to string the 5 solo groups under 1/2". It's a tough challenge without a high quality rifle, prime conditions and ammo to suit your rifle.

I've found a lot of fun in doing a full box test. Shoot an entire box, 10 groups and count every shot. Record an average group size and best group size. I do this most trips to the range. I find this gives a really realistic measure of what your rifle and you can do. It also gives you great comparable data. Nothing against the 1/2" challenge I think it's a great goal to strive for. But for lesser quality rifles that aren't as likely to reliably put down 5 sub half inch groups day in day out I think recording a box average is great use of ammo.
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This is similar to my instructions to someone trying to find the best ammo for their rifle. Start with a clean cold barrel, shoot 5 10 shot groups at 50 yards in a sequence.
Clean and start over with another brand of ammo firing the exact same sequence for your five targets.
If it appears that once target is a wash before you get to the end of the box it is worthwhile to continue either to get rid of and forget that box but you may see improvements with a fouled barrel.
If the original poster wants to start something different and new then lay out the ground works with an example.
The current five 5 shot 1/2" challenge meets the needs of many and has a long standing following. The rules were set and while there have been some variances it is a good challenge.

Reinventing the wheel with corners is not an option.
 
I'm pretty informal. I use a nice sheet of 8.5x11 card stock and draw black dots that are less than a half inch with a sharpie. I like a small dots and adjust the POI slightly below the dot for ease of measuring. As I usually only use the dots as a point of aim I find it easier to just bring a sharpie and pack of card stock. I can usually fit 2 box tests on one sheet with the 522. I'll post one of my targets shortly.

Final note I see no need for a new challenge thread. This is just something I find useful to track my tinkering, ammo selection and shooting ability.
 
kodiakjack said:
I’ll call your bluff.

Post your “lucky” pics here.

Otherwise, you’re just... “That” Guy. Every hobby has them. “Oh yeah eh, I ride a Hyabusa too eh, but I just though I’d leave it home today and take the 87 Magna out for a change...”. Uh huh. Right.

For the record, my name is also not on that list. Not for any altruistic purpose like the OP, but rather just because I suck sufficiently. (I also don’t ride a Hyabusa) :p
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:agree: I too would like to see the OP's groups.
 
RabidM4U5 said:
A few things to say... First off is that anyone who's run .22 LR ammo over a chronograph knows that you'll run into a few hot and weak rounds over the course of shooting 25-50 groups of 5 shots, ruining your attempt through no fault of the shooter, or rifle. .22 ammo just isn't that consistent, and anyone who could shoot such a target would truly be in the "got lucky" group.

I kinda agree with your sentiment that this isn't much of a challenge, when you have an accurate rifle it's not much of a strain on the ol' shootin' skills. In your case, "getting lucky" and achieving success with a borderline capable rifle is even more of an accomplishment than doing so with a custom benchrest rig, your rifle gives you no room for error, every shot had to be spot on. You can mess up some shots with a very accurate rifle and still succeed this challenge, it gives you that buffer room to keep the group under 1/2". To keep it interesting for myself, I've modified the criteria to meet before I will post a target. I don't accept any groups in the 0.4's anymore (if the rifle is capable of better, sometimes you just have to be satisfied with 0.3's and 0.4's), one rifle I want to be all under 1/4" before posting (I have many success under 1/2" already, but no post), and another one I have success with a scope, in spring I'll be going for it with iron sights.

I can back up every rifle I've posted to the thread with multiple successful 5x5 shot groups, and in some cases 10 qualifying groups on one page. Hey CK, don't kid yourself that 597 target was no fluke, that gun can shoot with the Lilja on it ;) I kinda think the point of that thread is to celebrate successes, even if someone struggled and can't consistently do it. Those that can do it with ease, usually have nothing else to prove to someone on the internet.
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Ditto!!! Also I know! I was pointing it out that the "not supposed to be accurate guns" are in fact 1/2 moa guns all day long as much as op doesn't like to admit it. That 597 is awesome! lmao

alberta guy said:
This is going to be my last post on this topic. I can see i am hurting peoples feeling on this. Yes you people have skills and have shot five, five round groups the averages under a 1/2". To pass the challenge. I have done it too with my savage. But I just want you to prove you can do it all day long with your chosen gun an ammo. Not once a summer when you get lucky like i did and many else have. Like I said I got lucky for those five groups but I have no been able to do it since. I have been real real close but not succsesfull. That is why I do not put my pictures on the internet. Best group 25 shot 5 group challenge. Yah, under 1/2" for sure. Everyday shooting... most likely not going to happen for me again any time soon.
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''

Lots of the guns up here have done it a few times. I do believe I completed it and posted it multiple times also with different types of ammo. I may have sold that rifle, I still think I have 4 different targets saved all completing the challenge... I guess those where 100 shot miracles ?

Rod B said:
:agree: I too would like to see the OP's groups.
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^ this
 
A single 3-shot group from 2005 and you are still posting it... you seriously need to get to the range more... not to mention that it is a centerfire group in the rimfire forum.
 
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