Please help me identify this No. 4 Enfield

cantom,
Your rifle is not a genuine military version, no matter that it looks like the one Milarm sent you pics of.

Have you taken the handguard off? It should say "Golden State Arms" and/or Sante Fe on the barrel somewhere if it was bubba'd by them.
 
wheaty said:
The rifle is question is one made by Golden State Arms in the 60's as a quasi "Jungle Carbine". They were a No.4 with the forend wood cut down. There was two models: one forend was cut just ahead of the middle band and used the original rear handguard and a stamped metal nose piece to hold the uncut number 4 rear handguard on the rifle, while the other model had the middle band moved back and the original handguard was just rounded off at the nose. The flash hider was a cast pot metal flash hider secured to the bayonet lug by a set screw. The barrel was "bobbed back" about 3/4 inch. These rifles have been sold as "Commando Carbines", Long Jungle Carbines, experimental No.4's, etc. but they are just a 60's bubba job on a No.4. One who remembers them........
Cheers,
Wheaty

That's certainly a possibility, but on searching that company, I've found a couple of sites that indicate that they always stamped their company name on the barrel. There's nothing on my rifle.
Now, if you go down the page on this link, you'll see the Santa Fe Jungle Carbines, and they are different than the rifle in question. For one thing, they mount a bayonet.

http://www.webpages.uidaho.edu/~stratton/SantaFeRifles.htm
 
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Stevo said:
And I had you pegged for a Coronation Street fan.:p

I resemble that remark ........... :D

I haven't had this much fun with my clothes on in a long time........... :eek:

This could go on longer than the "Girls with Guns" posts.......... :dancingbanana:

Regards,
Badger
 
BadgerDog said:
I resemble that remark ........... :D

I haven't had this much fun with my clothes on in a long time........... :eek:

This could go on longer than the "Girls with Guns" posts.......... :dancingbanana:

Regards,
Badger


old guys :rolleyes: so hard to keep them on topic :D


so Santa Fe is a distinct possability. They had a few different models and some were not marked if I remember with the santa fe. But I'm noe old enough to actually remember when they came out, just from some of the old guys posting old gun mag advertisments
 
woodchopper said:
old guys :rolleyes: so hard to keep them on topic :D

Just because I initially miss-read the subject line of whimmus' post titled Extraction issues on Mod 1 Mk3 enfield ( 1 2) as, Erection issues on Mod 1 Mk3 enfield ( 1 2), doesn't mean I'm getting OLD!!! :p

Regards.
Badger
 
Stevo said:
cantom,
Your rifle is not a genuine military version, no matter that it looks like the one Milarm sent you pics of.

Have you taken the handguard off? It should say "Golden State Arms" and/or Sante Fe on the barrel somewhere if it was bubba'd by them.

I took it off tonight. No sign of anything like that anywhere on the gun.
 
You know what, I'm convinced it is a royal marine navy ####ing commando.......it has to be through the process of elimination we just went through 9 pages of.
So even though there is no reference to such a beast anywhere in any respected reference guide, it has to be one of them rare navy commando special forces mother####ers.
I'm sure it is worth at least, 40 ####ing thousand dollars........
Now I have to go and hit myself in the head with a hammer so I can get some sleep
 
Wow, it has the uber-rare Royal Marine Command buttpad, specially made and sent back in time to 1940 by Pachmayr!! Wow! It MUST be worth the $500 Milarms is trying to fleece... err, sell it for!
 
woodchopper said:
old guys :rolleyes: so hard to keep them on topic :D


so Santa Fe is a distinct possability. They had a few different models and some were not marked if I remember with the santa fe. But I'm noe old enough to actually remember when they came out, just from some of the old guys posting old gun mag advertisments

I found your site on the net, it's pretty good.
 
Claven2 said:
Wow, it has the uber-rare Royal Marine Command buttpad, specially made and sent back in time to 1940 by Pachmayr!! Wow! It MUST be worth the $500 Milarms is trying to fleece... err, sell it for!

Mine has a standard Enfield brass buttpad...obviously someone somewhere in the life of that rifle installed that buttpad...
 
Seems to me that when these companies were mass-bubbaizing no4s, you could buy the flashider and wood seperately. Perhaps some enterprising gunsmith in a shed somewhere undertook his own bubbification program to try and raise the price of the once common #4s to jungle carbine levels.

A cutoff barrel with no crown, and a pot metal flashider, do not sound like the quality control levels that any military would accept, especially Royal marine gurkha navy commandoes. And the story about the CFC lady knowing anything about these guns is even more incredulous. As to the markings no4 and a half, it is more likely that to get the wood to fit the rifle, it was easier to remove the brazed on tang for the trigger and replace the lower floorplate than to modify the wood to fit a mk2 modified rifle.

I think PT Barnum had an expression attributed to him for a buyer who goes for an incredulous purchase: http://www.historybuff.com/library/refbarnum.html

But not even he could foresee a guy driving 100 miles to do it a second time.
Anyone who would fall for this should be wary of emails from Nigeria requiring your assistance to help retrieve some corrupt officials stash of loot.
 
stencollector said:
Seems to me that when these companies were mass-bubbaizing no4s, you could buy the flashider and wood seperately. Perhaps some enterprising gunsmith in a shed somewhere undertook his own bubbification program to try and raise the price of the once common #4s to jungle carbine levels.

A cutoff barrel with no crown, and a pot metal flashider, do not sound like the quality control levels that any military would accept, especially Royal marine gurkha navy commandoes. And the story about the CFC lady knowing anything about these guns is even more incredulous. As to the markings no4 and a half, it is more likely that to get the wood to fit the rifle, it was easier to remove the brazed on tang for the trigger and replace the lower floorplate than to modify the wood to fit a mk2 modified rifle.

I think PT Barnum had an expression attributed to him for a buyer who goes for an incredulous purchase: http://www.historybuff.com/library/refbarnum.html

But not even he could foresee a guy driving 100 miles to do it a second time.
Anyone who would fall for this should be wary of emails from Nigeria requiring your assistance to help retrieve some corrupt officials stash of loot.


Oh, my ears are ringing..Bottom line is, I like the rifle and it is worth what I paid for it as a shooter, one way or the other. Would I have paid a premium price for it based on that story? Not likely. I really only want to get to the bottom of it re the numerous examples floating around Canada, I'd like to know who did it definitively.


Ian Skennerton answered btw and put the kibosh on it big time as many on here knew he would.


Hi from the Gold Coast, Oz,
From the pics the rifle looks like a bitza (bits of this & bits of that).
No.4 Fazakerley body, aftermarket (Sarco?) flash hider, shortened fore-end,
handguards & barrel, etc.
Marine Commando? someone has been dreaming or trying to sell theirs!
Hope you didn't pay much for it, or that it makes a good bush rifle for deer
hunting.
CHeers, Ian

<and, about the Milarm one with the buttpad>


Definitely aftermarket, down to the rubber kickpad.
Ian



Now, if I had bought yet another bone stock No 4, what would there have been to talk about?
 
cantom said:
Now, if I had bought yet another bone stock No 4, what would there have been to talk about?

Yeah, but really bro, was it worth it? (I'm not talking about the rifle......:D )
 
One last bit - a No. 4 Mk. 1/2 isn't a No. 4 and a half, its a No. 4 Mk. "1 stroke 2" - a Mk. I rifle altered to Mk. 2. Similarly a No. 4 Mk. 1/3 isn't a 4 and a third, its "one stroke three", a Mk. I* rifle altered to Mk. 2 specs.
I wonder if MilArm is going to revise their description and price?
 
tiriaq said:
One last bit - a No. 4 Mk. 1/2 isn't a No. 4 and a half, its a No. 4 Mk. "1 stroke 2" - a Mk. I rifle altered to Mk. 2. Similarly a No. 4 Mk. 1/3 isn't a 4 and a third, its "one stroke three", a Mk. I* rifle altered to Mk. 2 specs.
I wonder if MilArm is going to revise their description and price?

Milarm is not describing theirs as anything...they call it an unknown curiousity basically which is exactly what it is.
I know what a No 4 Mk 1/2 rifle is btw, there is plenty of documentation about them on the net.
 
On page 6 of this saga...."The Canadian Firearms Centre said (I was told) that they are a No. 4 and a half...they are aware of them so I was told...they said they were also made in 7.62mm..." This apparently from the same CFC source who confirmed the Commando story. The CFC didn't know what a 1/2 was, the seller apparently didn't either, if he passed along this account, with the 4 and a half terminology.
 
I don't think that the hole in the bolt handle is anything special. I used to have a full-length No4 mk1/2 that came from Century with one of those. I think I may have had one on a No4 Mk2 (f) as well.

As for relying on the CFC to verify the commando story, based on the quality of information on the registration slips we've all seen them send out, I wouldn't rely on them to verify the accurary of anything.
 
Quiet said:
I don't think that the hole in the bolt handle is anything special. I used to have a full-length No4 mk1/2 that came from Century with one of those. I think I may have had one on a No4 Mk2 (f) as well.

As for relying on the CFC to verify the commando story, based on the quality of information on the registration slips we've all seen them send out, I wouldn't rely on them to verify the accurary of anything.

I thought only Jungle Carbines had the bolt handles with holes. Obviously the rifles are Bubbas, the only question is who did the Bubbafication...

Has anyone seen an ROF (F) rifle in gray metal before? Or were they all in black paint?
 
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