Please help me understand something

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Still alive

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Ok guys. Don't flame me here and don't say " Because we can!"
I have a genuine curiosity as to why there are so many very similar calibers and wildcat loads out there?
Like .222 and .223., 7.62x51 and .308, 7mm-08, 8mm and 7mm mag, .300 WM and WSM. .22 LR, .17 HMR, .22 Mag etc. etc.
Especially the wildcat loads that require time, trimming, necking and figuring powders and case lengths, new barrels and actions to make. The cost must be astronomical.
I usually make jokes about guys who own a million calibers so they have one for the right leg of a grouse at 30yds and one for the head at 70yds and nether the twain shall meet.
I have a 12ga, a .22 and a 7mm mag which I figure covers most of what I will take. I get that a truly big game hunter will go .375, or .400 or something but why are there so many very similar calibers and ballistics out there? Can't one just substitute a more common similar one rather than buy or reload obscure and more expensive calibers that may or may not be truly advantageous?

Please present thy case and have fun!
 
Your exactly right . People get sucked in by the marketing hype (including me) at one time I had just about every caliber, now I'm still foolish , I have many rifles in a few calibers and there's not that much diff in the rifle brands either . Now they all have cheaper to high end models . It's all about keeping the cash flowing .
Money is like air , it's not important until you don't have any.
 
The fact that it is obscure is enough to make it interesting. Too have something that everybody can't just go buy at any CT, like an 870 express or Savage axis. Something with some more 'flavour'
 
Some of those calibers can also be considered "niche" calibers with more or less specific purposes, some people like obscure calibers for sentimental reasons, others like tinkering. A lot of wildcats come about from someone trying to squeeze a touch more accuracy or performance out of a cartridge.
 
burns k31 said:
The fact that it is obscure is enough to make it interesting. Too have something that everybody can't just go buy at any CT, like an 870 express or Savage axis. Something with some more 'flavour'
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I get that rare and unusual has a cool factor.
The fact remains that necessity is the mother of all invention. For a rare and unusual caliber to be reality, someone had to have some parameters and the know how to build the first one; both ammo and action/barrel.

And the fact remains that it still takes a lot of metalurgy expertise, hunting and shooting skills and a lot of money to come up with an idea that works. I'm guessing the original wildcatters were hunters, trappers and outdoorsmen. Where would they have the time and especially money to develop new loads? Won't it be easier to buy a cheaper existing bigger or smaller caliber? Or bullet design?
 
gun nut, right, not what as the question again?

300 Win mag, for hunting everything up to grizzly bear
338Win mag for grizzly bear
223 for service rifle
30'06 , cause that's what the Garand shoots
308 because, aw come on man, that one goes without saying.
7.62x54R for when you are too lazy to clean your SVT40 after corrosive ammo
6.5 Creedmoor cause that's what the cool RPR that everyone says is the best thing since sliced bread shoots,duh
348 Winchester, 32-20, 218Bee, 375Win, 358Win 30-30, 32Winchester Special because if it ain't a lever gun it ain't....


I'll stop now cause it should be clear by now.

From this gunnutter to all gunnutters Happy New Year, try something new!:cheers:
 
Papaclaude said:
Some of those calibers can also be considered "niche" calibers with more or less specific purposes, some people like obscure calibers for sentimental reasons, others like tinkering. A lot of wildcats come about from someone trying to squeeze a touch more accuracy or performance out of a cartridge.
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I get the one upmanship of shooting the best groups and tinkering. But there is so much potential variable and error in the entire design process of a wildcat round that with the time and money involved, how much would have been ammo and how much was the human pulling the trigger? What is the real difference in .5 or .4 MOA if the next guy cannot replicate it.
I guess my point is " Is there really an advantage to buying calibers with 0.001" changes in diameter?" I bet bullets from factory or homemade castings will already have more variable than that.
 
big bear said:
300 Win mag, for hunting everything up to grizzly bear
338Win mag for grizzly bear
223 for service rifle
30'06 , cause that's what the Garand shoots
308 because, aw come on man, that one goes without saying.
7.62x54R for when you are too lazy to clean your SVT40 after corrosive ammo
6.5 Creedmoor cause that's what the cool RPR that everyone says is the best thing since sliced bread shoots,duh
348 Winchester, 32-20, 218Bee, 375Win, 358Win 30-30, 32Winchester Special because if it ain't a lever gun it ain't....
:
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trebor2880 said:
.22LR, .223, 30/06 and the 458Win. Mag, are the needed rifle calibers. All the rest are just wants.
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See what I mean? My thoughts are more with Trebor except I'll throw in .308 and maybe a 30-30 or .44 mag for a lever action.
Clean and simple with available ammo in multiple loadings and style. .223 and .308 capable of great accuracy as used in F class.

What gaps do the hundreds of calibers between .17 and .500 fill that the ones mentioned by Trebor cannot do reasonably well, keeping in mind human error?
 
^ I agree with this.

I think all the redundant calibres amount to an excuse to purchase another firearm. Nothing wrong with this, of course. In the end it's just a rationalization to justify another additional firearm. Justify to your spouse or yourself - i.e. "Honey, I NEED (want) this rifle because I don't have anything in XX calibre and I NEED (want) it to hunt ###."
 
Like all things, it's based on our struggle for perfection. There is, for example, a perfect cartridge for elk. Maybe we've already found it (.300 Win Mag/Weatherby Mag?)...but maybe not. Maybe there's one out there that has just the perfect ballistic curve and energy at impact for hunting elk. In firearms, as in most thing that involve the laws of physics, we make a lot of trade-offs: mass for velocity, magazine capacity for powder charge weight, twist rate for projectile mass. The secret to the perfect ballistic coefficient is in managing as many of the controllables as possible. And maybe, just maybe, you are the guy that hits on the next great cartridge. Where was .300 Blackout 10 years ago? Where was .40S&W 25 years ago? So I say kudos to the Wildcatters! Long may you toil in your basement reloading rooms, surrounded by powder still in metal tins and walls of dies for cartridges dating back to the Boer War! Find us the next great calibre so we can all continue to stack up our firearms collections and so justify the expense to our long suffering spouses!
 
Not an expert here, but there is a global market for firearms and that means there are global legal requirements to be met. For example, some countries outlaw all past and present military calibers such 7.62x51, 5.56, 9mm etc. Some countries ban .223, so those countries fire .222 instead (I believe there used to be a mini 14 in .222). I'm not sure what the reason is for a ban on military calibers, but one can assume that it's like the 106 mm handgun ban in Canada in that it would eliminate many common firearms from civilian ownership. Likely, it is also more expensive to get ammo.

Some African countries have specific minimum cartridges for certain game and might explain some of the different large and more obscure calibers. Hunters, in general, don't shoot as often as shooters and might choose a less common 7 mm magnum over a .30-06 for a flatter shooting trajectory and want it for a little more power than a .308. If you shoot 5 rounds a year, you won't care that a cartridge may cost a little more.

Wildcat cartridges try to get a little more performance and sometimes, in a generation, they can become very accepted and common. The .357 was once a built up .38 special and nowadays, most modern revolvers are in .357 because they can also shoot .38 special.
 
trebor2880 said:
.22LR, .223, 30/06 and the 458Win. Mag, are the needed rifle calibers. All the rest are just wants.
Click to expand...

Still alive said:
See what I mean? My thoughts are more with Trebor except I'll throw in .308 and maybe a 30-30 or .44 mag for a lever action.
Clean and simple with available ammo in multiple loadings and style. .223 and .308 capable of great accuracy as used in F class.

What gaps do the hundreds of calibers between .17 and .500 fill that the ones mentioned by Trebor cannot do reasonably well, keeping in mind human error?
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Someone saw a need for a heavy bore caliber with good ranging characteristics so the .416 was invented.

Also European vs. American cartridge development - the 9.3's vs. the 35 calibers, or 7mm vs. the 270.
 
Still alive said:
I get the one upmanship of shooting the best groups and tinkering. But there is so much potential variable and error in the entire design process of a wildcat round that with the time and money involved, how much would have been ammo and how much was the human pulling the trigger? What is the real difference in .5 or .4 MOA if the next guy cannot replicate it.
I guess my point is " Is there really an advantage to buying calibers with 0.001" changes in diameter?" I bet bullets from factory or homemade castings will already have more variable than that.
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I think it's all part of the game. Some car nuts spend thousands of dollars and countless hours trying to squeeze that tiny bit of extra performance out of their car. Same for snowmobilers and bikers. Cyclists spend thousands customizing bikes to get that tiny bit of speed. Same holds true for any hobby or sport, I guess.

My wife started cheesemaking as a hobby, with a $30 kit. Now, she has a setup where she can process 55 gallons of milk at a time, an aging cellar, the works. Is it sane or rational? Nope. But she sure enjoys herself.
 
Lots of popular calibers nowadays were once wildcats.260, 243, 25-06, 270, 280, and on and on. I just built a 6x45 why you might ask? Because I was bored with 223rem and wanted to shoot 6mm bullets while using the many thousand 223rem brass I have. Gotta say shooting a 105gr bullet from that little case is fantastic. Pretty much same trajectory as a 308 with a 175gr bullet with half the powder. What is not to like.
 
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