Please help, new BAR all over the place.

Petamocto

Petamocto

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Hi everyone,

I would appreciate any experience with people who know what they are doing setting up a rifle, please. I have a lot of experience with military firearms, but I am the first to admit that I am a total rookie when it comes to buying new stuff and building my own system.

Last fall I bought a brand new Browning BAR in 30.06, and paired it with a new Leupold VX3, with Leupold rings. I did what I could to put it together, and used my friend's laser bore sighter to get it as close to true as I could. I then brought it to the range last fall, and it was all over the place, even from only 100. The rounds were scattered, and I couldn't even get a grouping to guide it on target.

I thought that it may be an issue with eye relief, so I pushed it an inch forward over the winter, lasered it again, and took it out again today. Same thing, completely all over the place, and I wasted about $100 in ammo chasing holes all over the place (if it was even on paper at all). Photo below shows it pushed forward; I found it necessary to lean into it for the 30.06, so any farther back and you can't lean into it.

At the end of the day I even set it up on a bench rest, and it was no better. Rounds all over the place.

I know it's not me, I have an out-of-the-box Mossberg MVP that I get super tight groups on, and I've never had this kind of problem shooting before in the military (always score "marksman"). The MVP came pre-assembled, though. I am not trying to claim that I'm an amazing shot, I'm not at all, I just know that I am not the limiting factor here.

I would even be happy just to get an "okay" grouping out of this set-up, but this now has me incredibly frustrated. I'm in for over $2,000 so far, and I have no idea what is going wrong. I don't need minute of angle, but we're talking 4 rounds that aren't even in the same square foot from 100, on a bipod or on a bench.

Can anyone think of reasons this may be happening? I think the screws are tight holding the scope down. The only other thing I have done to it is drilled a hole through the handguard so I could put a sling stud in it to attach a bipod. I don't think that is poking through and touching to gas tube, but even if it were, I don't think it would cause this sort of wonky shooting.

Any tips are appreciated, thank you. I can only assume that I have done something terribly wrong in setting this up.

Sean

BAR_zpsa986dc64.jpg
 
Check barrel crown see if its damaged or uneven.
Load a round manually from the mag, unload, check if the round has visual damage from the feeding ramp or chamber.
Fire a round, let the rifle cycle and auto load next one, unload, check if the round is damaged or has marks different from autoloading compared to manual load
Fire several rounds loading each from the magazine manually, see if the grouping improves if you slowly load each time instead of allowing bolt to slam while cycling.
Put another scope or put this scope on another rifle. But if you say that you laser sight it twice and it was on the mark second time it is not the scope.
 
IIRC, there are several steps in using one of those laser bore sighter setups.
Take a shot, check with laser...shoot another move cross hairs??? Something along those lines.
Anyways, if it where mine I would clean the chamber and the bore and go see someone with a traditional bore sighter and have them set it up on the collator for three inches at hundred and buy some 165grn bullets ( or what ever you are going to shoot ) for choice of game. You will prolly have to pay $20.00 or maybe not, but it will get you on paper at least and then allow you to walk it in for final settings.
On a side note, most gun shops are in the business of selling ammo and not bore sighting ;)
Seriously, this is the route I would take, others will differ I am sure.
Nice rig by the way.
Tight Groups , eventually.
Rob
 
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Thank you everyone for the replies.

I really don't think it's an issue with the scope or bore-sighter, because it's the groupings that are bad. I will try again with the screws, but man I would really have to crank the sh!t out of them to make it any tighter. They're snug now, but I will go the super tight route and hope I don't strip anything. Lock-tight it is (base and mounts), and we'll see.
 
If you checked the mounts and you think it sits tight its not the scope. Its something with a barrel or automatics damaging the bullet while reloading or there is a play between barrel and receiver. That BAR has alloy receiver not that stable as it could be.
 
Have you tried that scope on another rifle or tried a proven scope on the BAR? Even good scopes can go bad, I had a Nikon that suddenly went south and after repairs held well again.
 
Outside of the mounts or scope could be just a bum rifle, it happens even in the best makes. Personally I would try another scope and double check mounts. If the problem persists contact Browning, the BAR is not known as a tack driver but should still give decent groups.
 
From my experience and listening to other shooters/hunters, when a gun is all over the place like yours, it usually turns out that something is loose,..but if you are sure everything is snug enough, then that's not your problem. I wouldn't try and over tighten anyting,...that could lead to stipping, or breaking something.
I saw this,(shooting all over the paper), happen once with my father-in-laws rifle,..it turned out the cross hairs were loose and would shift a little each time a shot was fired. My next guess would be try giving your barrel a real good cleaning,....a good brushing with solvent and some patches in between brushings. I just read an article on this awhile ago but I can't find it again,......anyway, the guy said in the article that on many occasion he had seen new barrels and old shot alot barrells that people figured to be no good, and he gave them a proper scrubing and cleaning, and they turned out to be very accurate. If I find the article I will post it.
So before you try over tightning anything You should try another scope, and give the bore a real intense cleaning,...and as someone else mentioned, check the muzzle crown to make sure its not damaged or uneven.
 
No I haven't swapped out the scope or rifle, because I don't have that much kit right now. I only have 3 x setups: Remington 597 w/ Bushnell red dot that's fine, Mossberg MVP kit that's fine, and this BAR w/ Leupold.

I don't dare take the scope off the MVP, because I don't want to risk screwing it up when it's set up so well right now. I'd almost be happier to put iron sights on the BAR, because even those would give me better accuracy than the $800 paperweight I have now. And knowing the quality of Leupold, I am not blaming them quite yet.

Long story short, I don't have anything else I can test it with right now. I bought this entire set up at Bass Pro north of Toronto, though, so I am going to bring it back to them and give them the chance to sort it out.
 
Lots of good info has been given so far, after reading it all, I would be suspect of a faulty scope. Try to get another scope mounted, perhaps you could borrow one to test and and see if that helps.
 
My money is on the bore sighter that is currently in use.
Yes, I failed to mention ensure the screws are tight and gun tite was used to secure them too.
An $800.00 paper weight you say ???
You got a deal, cause once it is sorted out you will be one happy camper.
Just my nickles worth.
Rob

ps Sean, not posting to piss you off , just stating and reaffirming my position that is all.
keep us posted after your trip to BP on Saturday.
 
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It is not the bore sighter. If it were that piece of kit, the zero may be off, but I would be able to at some point chase down where the groupings are actually hitting, and I would be able to adjust it toward "true". The issue is that even when I can get the odd round to hit the square foot, it it most often by itself. It is the groupings themselves that are all over the place.
 
Bar problems

Do not rule out scope until you try another one. My uncle bought one of these rifles and had the same problem. Ended up sending it back due to barrel problem. Browning sent him a new one.
 
Royzo said:
Do not rule out scope until you try another one. My uncle bought one of these rifles and had the same problem. Ended up sending it back due to barrel problem. Browning sent him a new one.
Click to expand...

Thank you for posting that. I would hate it to come to that, but it is nice to know it is doable. I'm going to try again after locktighting everything down, and if it still doesn't work I'll bring it back to Bass Pro and tell them to sort it out.
 
I had the same problem with a bolt rifle. My first inclination was that it maybe a flinch, but since you are proficient, then that is not likely the case. My second take was that your scope/rings/bases are the culprit. I had a similar issue with a bolt rifle. My issue was not so much with the scope rings, but the bases themselves. Be careful about the "super tight", as you can strip those little buggers too, and that would be a shame. To remedy, I bought a torque driver. I use blue loctite and tighten the bases to spec. Then the lower rings. Now, I use a 1" dowel to make sure that the rings are square and true. Nothing will screw up a scope faster than rings which are mis-aligned. If true, then I insert scope as per usual and tighten as per specs. If not aligned properly, then I ream/lap the rings, install scope, and tighten to spec.
 
Yes hopefully scope. But with quality control nowadays at times is questionable. The replacement my uncle got works perfectly. The chance of getting a bad barrel is slim but is a possibility with any rifle.
 
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