Please help with red dot style sights?

[Jayph]

I have never shot, looked through, or researched these types of sights. Iam actually not sure of the different types but Iam referring to the optics commonly found on Ar-15 style rifles.

I use to have a scope on my xcr for coyote hunting but it was big and bulky at the range. Problem being the gun saw alot more range than coyote hunting. I was hoping that a red dot (or other) type optic would be better for 50-200yd plinking and still usable when coyote hunting 150yd and closer (usually under 100yd). I tried google but was lost quickly having no experience under my belt with these sites.

I was hoping for recomendations in the $500 and under and the $500-$1000 range to narrow my choices down.

Thanks

Jason

 

[Wolfstrack]

edited

 

[my_2_cents]

The Aimpoint PRO and EOtech's are a good option for 100 yards or less, great quality. They each cost around the $500 range you mention. The challenge is magnification for longer range, both have magnifiers available, but they cost as much as the scope itself. I have an Aimpoint PRO and am very happy with it, looking for a second one when I have the cash or find a decent trade.

 

[Ar180shooter]

Quite a few good options out there. There are 3 basic types of red dot sights. Standard tube red dots (Aimpoint mostly, comes in regular and micro sized varieties, Henzoldt RSA), Holo sights (EOTech) and reflex sights (Burris Fast Fire, Vortex Razor Red Dot). There are options that start as low as $50 (not recommended for anything but rim-fire) up to over $1000 for certain fancy EOTechs. Since you appear to be looking for something around the $500 mark, I'll focus on those.

For a little background, I've owned 3 Aimpoints (1 x M3, 1 x ML3, 1 x Micro H1), 1 EOTech (552) and a Vortex Razor Red Dot, so I feel I'm able to give some insight in to the issue. They're all well made and would, IMHO, work quite well on your XCR (I haven't tried the Vortex yet, TVPressPass did a good review of it).

I'll start by giving the pros and cons of each type, then suggest a few models that may work.

Reflex sights:
Pros:
Lightweight
Low profile
Good battery life

Cons:
Small FOV
dot can be blocked by debris
may require riser
sometimes use obscure battery

These are great to have as a back up to a magnified optic, on shotguns or on pistols. The biggest limitation is if using it alone on a tactical style rifle is you may need a riser to get a proper cheek weld. This adds weight and cost to the set up. Dots are usually between 3 and 8 MOA.

Trijicon RMR

$550

Vortex Razor Red Dot:

$530

Russian Cobra:

$400

Burris Fast Fire III:

$330

To give an idea of scale:

Holo Sights:

Pros:
Can have complex reticules
Some models use AA batteries
Readily available magnifiers
Wide FOV

Cons:
Heavy
Poor battery life (relatively, 600 hours or so)
Some models bulky

EOTechs, despite their imperfections, may be my favourite type of red dots. I really like the 65MOA circle with 1MOA dot reticule. You pay for this with battery life and a larger sight, but some models use AA batteries. Some guys in the states have used rechargeable AA batteries and hooked up a miniature solar panel to the sight, allowing for virtually unlimited use.

EOTech, various models:
XPS

512/552

$450-$650

Red Dots:

Full size:

Pros:
Unbelievable battery life (up to 60,000 hours)
Readily available magnifiers
decent FOV

Cons:
Heavy
Can be bulky (the reason I don't like the Aimpoint M4)
May need separate mount (i.e. Aimpoint M2/M3/Pro series)

There are many types of these, Aimpoint is definitely the most popular high end model, and is used by police and military all over the world. There are also Russian made collimating red dots that are quite good, but half the price of a Aimpoint. Reticules can vary from 2MOA to 6MOA.

Aimpoint M4:

$600

Aimpoint M3:

$450

Commie stuff:

$200


Micro Red Dot:

Pros:
Lightweight
Compact
Good battery life

Cons:
May need riser
narrow FOV
sometimes use obscure battery

Aimpoint Micro H1/T1:

$500-$600

Henzoldt RSA:

$475

 

[Jayph]

Thank you for the detailed post

Does one stand out as the clear winner for outdoor use in bright conditions (sunny snowy days?)

Thanks.

 

[pope_face]

Commie stuff:

$200

Since I've got nothing against Commie stuff (to an extent), I'm curious what this model is... Since you mentioned it along with the likes of EOTech, Vortex, and Aimpoint, it can't be that bad, and it might work well for my purposes.

However, to the OP: There have been comments made regarding small FOV, but remember that red dots are well suited for shooting with both eyes open, and the small FOV argument likely won't apply until you start magnifying them (at which point you'll have one eye closed). If you want magnification, and expect to regularly be shooting gophers at 150 yards, you could consider a variable magnification optic, say a 1-4x. However, note that some of these 1-4x optics are not a true 1x, so you may need to do a search on the forums to find which ones are a true 1x magnification (Elcan and Swarowski, and possibly a couple others, IIRC). Some can be had with crosshairs or a red dot, or a T-dot (I think). Since you've also offered the $500-$1000 range, this may be a good solution for you. I believe Jerry from Mystic Precision had a very nice optic listed that may very well fit your desires, and IIRC it came in under $1000.

EDIT: Here it is, Sightron SIII, 1-7x, at Mystic Precision: http://www.mysticprecision.com/wp/2176/sightron-1-7x24-lrirmoa-and-ir4a/. $869 list price, and apparently a true 1x sight, with a red dot. If I had the money to spend, I would definitely be considering this...

 

[umdiddly]

I'm torn between an Aimpoint Pro or shelling out an extra $300 I don't have, for an Micro H-1 and Larue mount... should I "$500 red dot" or "debt red dot"?

 

[rivetc78]

I'm currently torn as well, trying to decide on a new optic for my Weapon....sorry, paper puncher

I have 2 E-bay special. A eotec. Good indoors, dot washes out when outside in sunny weather. And a H1 (T1) which Rocks. Each was about $40 or less. Both Fine for my Thureon Defense .45.

Want to buy a 'real' optic for my new BCM. Vortex Razor Red Dot? $$$ Leupold Delta? $$$$ Aimpoint RMR? $$$$$ Forget burris, plastic junk. $500-$800 !

I have read good stuff about the Delta Point. A nice bridge between Vortex and the high priced Aimpoint.

Then there is the H1 (T1) about $650...

Or should I jump up to a Acog....? Elcan OSx4? Buy the 4X and get a bit of both. Close and far in one package. $1200 - $1600

Maybe risk my marriage and get a 1-6X or 1-8 Optic. $2000+ LOL

 

[pope_face]

I'm torn between an Aimpoint Pro or shelling out an extra $300 I don't have, for an Micro H-1 and Larue mount... should I "$500 red dot" or "debt red dot"?

I would say this is an answer to your question... Are you married? Do you plan on continuing to stay married? If the answer to either of those is "no", then go for it.

The Aimpoint PRO seems to be a perfectly good RDS for many people, and seems to be the most economical route to a good quality red dot. I think the only real differences between it and a H1/T1 is size (but I could be wrong). However, if you're patient and willing to buy a used optic, you could always hunt for one on the EE. I saw an Aimpoint PRO, nearly new, listed for $375 including shipping today. In store, I believe they run about $400-$450 (+ taxes and shipping), depending on where you go. If you really wanted the H1/T1, you could wait it out for one to show up on the EE. Or, pick up one of the other quality RDS available.

Having said that: There are people here that run much more expensive optics, so I can't say which is right for you, but personally I don't see that much of a difference between those Aimpoints. However, maybe I'm wrong... I would compare the two, see what each one gives you, and then decide whether the features of one are worth the $300 over the other.

 

[umdiddly]

Thank you for responding to my out loud brain-fart. That is some very reasonable advice.... I think I will go check out an aimpoint pro at my LGS, then if I like how it sits... I will order one online at one of the above sponsors (since local stores always sell these things at +$100 on top of online prices...). Seems like a great value for a solid red dot sight..

Edit:
Picked up an aimpoint pro at Brantford tactical. Great guys! Am really impressed with the optic, great value for the price point. Definitely recommended! The 1/3 co-witness is perfect for me... I really like shooting off iron sights, and having that little dot right there, makes it easier on the eyes!