Please pass the butter...

manbearpig

manbearpig

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roughly how much $ would i be looking at to have one of these:
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welded onto one of these?
45L.jpg


like so:
mannlicher-schoenauer-steyr.jpg


with decent quality work?
 
Boomer said:
Asking a gunsmith to produce decent quality work is insulting, and while I am sure there was no disrespect meant on your part, the answers are not likely to be what you want to hear.
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by decent quality work i mean not oxidizing my bolt or fudging up the heat treat. someone experienced at welding bolts will not see it as an insult at all, and should understand it to mean that i am asking how much it would cost to be done by a professional and not bubba'd.

while i could weld the highly replaceable bolt of a $150 milsurp myself id hardly do the same with the not-so-replaceable bolt of a $1000 rifle.

i should have rephrased it to ask how much such work would cost done by a skilled welder with 'experience welding bolts', but i hardly think i was insulting. no need to get touchy about it either way.
 
I ask my gunsmith to do a job for me; he asks me to pay him. We may have ball-parked an estimate. When it comes to paying, I must respect his time and talents. He has to respect my decision to come to him and not abuse my pocketbook or trust.

If your butterknife bolt handle costs $200 and improves the look and feel of the rifle by that much, then that is how much it costs.
 
...which is why im here asking for a ballpark figure of how much people think something like this will cost.

geez, why such negativity over a simple question?
ive never had a smith weld a bolt handle on for me and i dont know how much it costs to do it on a factory bolt like a ruger m77.
 
Boomer said:
Asking a gunsmith to produce decent quality work is insulting, and while I am sure there was no disrespect meant on your part, the answers are not likely to be what you want to hear.
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I am not sure what part of the original question was insulting? The original poster was just asking, how much? I would expect decent quality work and if one has to ask, he doesn't know the smith well enough to have this type of work done. I would warn the original poster that there are more wanna be smiths out there than real smiths, and many will charge a lot for a screwed up job. How about one of the real smith stepping forward and telling him how much?
 
If the first rifle has a bridge at the back of the receiver where the rear scope mount would go, the new bolt handle in front of it, like in the second picture is not going to work. And if you remove a portion of the rear receiver where are the rear scope mounts going to go? It looks like you want that full butter knife handle Mannlicher Schoenauer look . It probably would not be that difficult to mount the butter knife handle in place of the regular bolt handle, just not in the fore ward position.
 
Covey Ridge said:
I am not sure what part of the original question was insulting? The original poster was just asking, how much? I would expect decent quality work and if one has to ask, he doesn't know the smith well enough to have this type of work done. I would warn the original poster that there are more wanna be smiths out there than real smiths, and many will charge a lot for a screwed up job. How about one of the real smith stepping forward and telling him how much?
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A gunsmith is by definition a craftsman of the highest order. He must work within tolerances that are barely measurable with a micrometer, over a broad range of disciplines. His business is to produce excellent work, and when a client comes to him with a relatively simple job, and asks for a decent job, I don't think it is impossible that his back will get up.

Replacing a bolt handle is a simple gig for these guys, and while it might be proper to ask how the new handle would be attached, asking for decent work is not. Communication between the client and the gunsmith is the single most important element if you want to have a job done to your satisfaction, as your ideas might not be the same as his. Ask why can't you do it this way or that - don't ask him to produce decent work as if that would be out of the ordinary.
 
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this is the internet.
it is always valid to specify "decent work"
too many idiots out there would be willing to do a crap job of it for you for the price of a case of beer

a gunsmith, in many cases, is simply someone who calls themselves a gunsmith
no more, no less
no regulatory body sets standards or holds them to it
 
Boomer said:
A gunsmith is by definition a craftsman of the highest order. He must work within tolerances that are barely measurable with a micrometer, over a broad range of disciplines. His business is to produce excellent work, and when a client comes to him with a relatively simple job, and asks for a decent job, I don't think it is impossible that his back will get up.
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are you saying that everyone that calls himself a gunsmith automatically produces perfect quality work? because there are thousands of posts on the internet that testify otherwise.

i was just asking how much quality work would cost to do this, because its not exactly a $150 milsurp rifle.

BEARMAN:
the ruger M77 mark II already has a sortof flattened bolt handle like a butterknife, just ending in a ball. this really wouldnt change the bolt function much, just a cosmetic change. there should be plenty of room to mount a scope.
i dont intend to mount a scope on the gun though :)

rugerbolthv3.jpg


thats the ruger bolt on the righthand side (savage bolt on the left) -- the shape of the bolt is actually quite well suited for a butterknife conversion, IMO.
 
Gunsmiths and Tattoo "artists".

AFAIK, there is no requirement to have comleted any formal course of training for either, before they can hang out a shingle. At least, not in most places.

In the few places I have heard about that require training, I have not heard of any that will require proof of anything other than competency with safety related concerns. Proof of artistic capability, or capability to produce craftsmanship, usually end up being determined by market forces. The hacks starve themselves out of work.

Gunsmiths and Tattoo artists, both are worth shopping for a good one.

It must be good, where you are Boomer, to not have to sort through the hacks to get what you need.

Wish it was that easy everywhere.

Cheers
Trev
 
Two years ago I decided to have a rifle built out of parts I had accumulated. The action was a military M98 so a new bolt handle was needed. The gunsmith I decided to use quoted a price of $75.00 handle included. There was a LOT of back and forth in the form of pictures and discussion regarding the look I wanted and finally we reached a conclusion and he went ahead. He had told me that he would be getting a third party to do the handle which was ok with me once he described the welders qualifications.

When I received the rifle, the handle was perfect - exactly as I wanted it. A short time lated I started the slow rust bluing. Guess what. The upper bolt handle wouldn't rust. So I tried again. Nope.

It took me a minute then I realized the bolt had been welded with stainless. The gunsmith knew I was going to blue but he didn't tell the guy who took the gigged-up action/bolt to the welder and the welder didn't ask.

This fiasco was cured by me supplying another bolt body which the gunsmith send to Ralf Martini for a new handle. And I got a nice credit.

One of marks of a good gunsmith is how they react in these kinds of situations.
 
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manbearpig said:
are you saying that everyone that calls himself a gunsmith automatically produces perfect quality work? because there are thousands of posts on the internet that testify otherwise.
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No it's much better to say, "Hey instead of giving me the #### work you normally put out, how about doing it nice just for me!"

There are lots of posters who have both good and bad gunsmith experiences and who would be willing to direct you to a good gunsmith. Once you contact a gunsmith of repute, you have to assume you have contacted him to produce good work.

Positive communication is the key to your success. You might very well go to a well known shop only to end up with work that does not meet your expectation. Should this happen, it is up to the gunsmith to explain why the job had to be done a certain way, to make the job right, or provide a refund. This will end up being frustrating for both parties, but in my experience most of the gunsmiths I've dealt with have been top notch. That's not to say I haven't had problems with some of my projects, but I've learned over time who I can trust to do good work and who will stand behind their work.
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Installing a new bolt handle shouldn't take all that long to do properly. A couple of hours? Installing a butterknife handle would be no more difficult that installing a low scope handle on a military bolt. I have made and installed butterknife handles on M-S Greek military bolts.
That Ruger bolt is stainless. Is the replacement handle? Can the welder handle the material? Is the new handle going to work properly with the cut in the stock for the handle?
 
Boomer said:
A gunsmith is by definition a craftsman of the highest order. He must work within tolerances that are barely measurable with a micrometer, over a broad range of disciplines. His business is to produce excellent work, and when a client comes to him with a relatively simple job, and asks for a decent job, I don't think it is impossible that his back will get up.
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I went to a local craftsman and asked him to cut and crown two 870 barrels to 24 inches and reinstall the sights. Simple job? I forgot to mention that I wanted a decent job. Actually I did not want to insult him because he was a craftsman and in turn he issulted me. The barrels looked like they were put over his knee and cut with a hack and then dragged along a side walk to work out the rough edges. To top it off, one of the sights the craftsman installed to his carefully measured tolerances blew out on the first shot. This craftsman has his shop in Calgary and I would be happy to provide his name by PM if anyone is interested.

It is appropriate to ask if he does or is capbale of simple work.
 
QUOTE]


No it's much better to say, "Hey instead of giving me the s**t work you normally put out, how about doing it nice just for me!"

[/QUOTE]

The original poster did not come anywhere near saying this! What's your problem?
 
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