pls remove

If the rifle is stamped .308 Win then it's best to use .308 Win ammo. There is a slight dimensional difference between .308 Win and 7.62NATO, the 7.62 being a tad larger/longer. That said, most .308 Win rifles will chamber 7.62 ammo OK. It depends on the headspace situation for the individual rifle. If a .308 Win is set up with minimum headspace there is a chance that the bolt won't fully close on a 7.62 round. This is not a problem in a bolt gun where the powerful camming action of the bolt will allow it to close on a 7.62 round. This can be a problem in a Garand or an M14 type where the pressure of the op rod spring is used to close the bolt on a chambered round. When the bolt fails to close fully on a chambered round this will cause an out of battery detonation.

It's always best to determine the headspace of the individual rifle before selecting ammo and shooting it. When setting up a Garand chambered for 7.62NATO I use a .308 Win "no-go" headspace gauge as a "go" gauge and a .308 Win "field" headspace gauge as a "no-go "gauge. That ensures that the rifle can safely use both .308 Win and 7.62NATO ammo. I use either MILSPEC 7.62 NATO ammo or handloads in my 7.62 Garands. Adjusting my FL resizing die allows me to resize fired brass to ensure safety and smooth functioning in my rifles, plus I can use the proper propellants in my handloads. To check proper chambering of resized brass you can strip the bolt and close it by hand on your resized cases. It should close w/o resistance on a properly resized case by using finger pressure alone to close the bolt.


The use of commercial .308Win ammo in a Garand is another issue due to the typed of propellants being used which may or may not be compatible with the Garand gas system.
 
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purple said:
If the rifle is stamped .308 Win then it's best to use .308 Win ammo. There is a slight dimensional difference between .308 Win and 7.62NATO, the 7.62 being a tad larger/longer. That said, most .308 Win rifles will chamber 7.62 ammo OK. It depends on the headspace situation for the individual rifle. If a .308 Win is set up with minimum headspace there is a chance that the bolt won't fully close on a 7.62 round. This is not a problem in a bolt gun where the powerful camming action of the bolt will allow it to close on a 7.62 round. This can be a problem in a Garand or an M14 type where the pressure of the op rod spring is used to close the bolt on a chambered round. When the bolt fails to close fully on a chambered round this will cause an out of battery detonation.

It's always best to determine the headspace of the individual rifle before selecting ammo and shooting it. When setting up a Garand chambered for 7.62NATO I use a .308 Win "no-go" headspace gauge as a "go" gauge and a .308 Win "field" headspace gauge as a "no-go "gauge. That ensures that the rifle can safely use both .308 Win and 7.62NATO ammo. I use either MILSPEC 7.62 NATO ammo or handloads in my 7.62 Garands. Adjusting my FL resizing die allows me to resize fired brass to ensure safety and smooth functioning in my rifles, plus I can use the proper propellants in my handloads. To check proper chambering of resized brass you can strip the bolt and close it by hand on your resized cases. It should close w/o resistance on a properly resized case by using finger pressure alone to close the bolt.


The use of commercial .308Win ammo in a Garand is another issue due to the typed of propellants being used which may or may not be compatible with the Garand gas system.
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So basically run milsurp ammo through it, and nothing else?

A friend of mine handed me some federal 150gr soft point, and some HSM HPBT 168gr, but I haven't shot it yet, because I don't want to bend the op rod, or cause any damage to my rifle at all.
 
Beardy.91 said:
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So basically run milsurp ammo through it, and nothing else?

A friend of mine handed me some federal 150gr soft point, and some HSM HPBT 168gr, but I haven't shot it yet, because I don't want to bend the op rod, or cause any damage to my rifle at all.
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If we are talking about a Garand chambered for 7.62 NATO, yes use MILSPEC 7.62 ammo or handloads which are set up for the rifle. The trouble with using commercial .308 Win ammo in a Garand is that most of it uses slower burning propellants to gain a higher muzzle velocity. These propellants are not compatible with the gas system of the Garand which requires a faster burning propellant such as IMR3031, IMR4895, H4895 and IMR4064.

Many people report using various commercial .308 Win loads in their Norinco M305 rifles which are stamped .308 Win, and that's a matter of personal choice. I've been building/tweaking/shooting Garands in both .30-06 and 7.62 NATO for about 45 yrs and have always used either MILSPEC ammo or properly assembled handloads using one of the correct propellants and bullets in the 150-168gr range. As a bonus, proper handloads will always bring out the best accuracy in addition to ensuring problem free functionality. As a footnote it is always a good idea to establish the headspace condition of the individual rifle before handloading for it.
 
purple said:
If we are talking about a Garand chambered for 7.62 NATO, yes use MILSPEC 7.62 ammo or handloads which are set up for the rifle. The trouble with using commercial .308 Win ammo in a Garand is that most of it uses slower burning propellants to gain a higher muzzle velocity. These propellants are not compatible with the gas system of the Garand which requires a faster burning propellant such as IMR3031, IMR4895, H4895 and IMR4064.

Many people report using various commercial .308 Win loads in their Norinco M305 rifles which are stamped .308 Win, and that's a matter of personal choice. I've been building/tweaking/shooting Garands in both .30-06 and 7.62 NATO for about 45 yrs and have always used either MILSPEC ammo or properly assembled handloads using one of the correct propellants and bullets in the 150-168gr range. As a bonus, proper handloads will always bring out the best accuracy in addition to ensuring problem free functionality. As a footnote it is always a good idea to establish the headspace condition of the individual rifle before handloading for it.
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Mine is stamped 7.62/2. I know about the fast burning powder, and I've been trying to find out if there's any commercial ammo that is compatible with the garand, but it's easier to just buy a flat of milsurp ammo. The local store has some 165gr 7.62 NATO in stock.
 
Considering that the original topic of this thread is about Garands chambered in .308 Win it might be helpful to add a bit of info about these. .308 Win Garands are all commercially assembled (the military used 7.62 NATO, not .308 Win, and there is a dimensional difference between the two) using commercial .308 Win barrels from sources like Criterion or Krieger. During installation the majority of these rifles are finish reamed to set up headspace using a .308 Win pull thru finishing reamer which will normally cut a minimum length chamber (1.630 plus or minus allowing for reamer tolerances and wear).

These .308 stamped Garands should be used with Garand compatible .308 Win ammo or with .308 Win handloads with brass resized to fit the .308 Win chamber. If 7.62NATO MILSPEC ammo is used in these minimum chambered rifles there is a high probability that the bolt will not close on a chambered round leading to the possibility of an out of battery detonation. .308 Win chambers can be cut deeper if desired by using a custom sized(thicker) thrust bushing with the .308 Win finishing reamer.

Folks tend to lump the .308Win and the 7.62NATO rounds together, but they are dimensionally different with slightly different chambers, headspace gauges and cartridges. Using 7.62NATO ammo in a minimum length .308 Win chamber is looking for trouble, especially in a Garand or M14 type which relies primarily on the strength of the op rod spring to close the bolt. Again, it is always good to determine the headspace condition of the individual rifle before selecting ammo or handloading for it.
 
http://www.fulton-armory.com/\faqs\M14-FAQs\308.htm

And apparently some of the experts disagree and suggest the opposite. Commercial brass is the weak link and 7.62 NATO is better is all cases. I tend to agree here. The NATO cartridge dimensions are smaller that the 308 dimensions so I would be surprised if a cartridge would not fit in a 308 chamber. NATO chambers are however larger allowing more brass stretching and requiring thicker brass casings.
 
The use of MILSPEC 7.62 brass is always a good idea when reloading for a Garand or M14 type by reason of the brass being more durable. These rifles are hard on brass and a reloader shouldn't look for much more than 4-5 firings from a piece of brass. See the Glen Zediker download for useful info on reloading for a Garand or M14 type. The Gerry Kuhnhausen Shop Manual is a must for any Garand or M14 type user as it contains a wealth of info on parts inspection, building, trouble shooting and reloading for these rifles.

One thing that folks do universally seem to agree on is to establish the headspace for your particular rifle before selecting ammo or reloading for it so that you know just what you are dealing with.
 
WOW talk about finicky rifles! I would like to buy a .308 win Garand someday.... but it is useless to me if it cant even shoot commercial .308 win ammo reliably lol a re-loaders toy, and I dont reload.... yet :/
 
purple said:
The Italians were the biggest military users of Garands converted to 7.62 NATO. Their Tipo 2 conversions involved shortening the breech end of standard .30-06 Garand barrels and re-chambering to 7.62. The barrel was shortened approx. .5 inch in the process. Other unique/modified parts for their 7.62 conversions were a shortened op rod, stock and rear handguard. A magazine spacer block was also used to prevent chambering a clip of .30-06 ctgs.

At some point they began making new 7.62 NATO barrels for these rifles which are stamped SIAU on the side and dated 1967/68. These barrels have a somewhat different profile under the chamber and have feed guides cut into the bottom area of the chamber rather than in the breech ring of the barrel. I've recently installed a couple of these barrels but have yet to test fire them. The earlier modified .30-06 barrels that I have gauge as new and shoot very well. The SIAU made barrels are lightly used and also gauge well at muzzle and breech.

The Italian 7.62 Tipo 2 rifles were built on any and all makes of Garand receivers in the Italian inventory. All of the modified/shortened op rods that I have are US made ones.
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Update on the Tipo 2 7.62 conversions with the SIAU marked barrels. Yesterday I tested one with a SIAU 1968 barrel that I assembled on a Beretta receiver using mostly new Beretta or other Italian made parts. The rifle functioned well and was accurate to boot using RG 87 British ball ammo. As mentioned above, the SIAU barrels have feed guides cut into the bottom of the chamber, rather than in the breech ring with other barrels. I was curious about how the rifle would feed with this and it worked well. The Italians did a lot of refinement of the Garand, culminating in their BM59 rifle. I'm looking forward to testing this rifle with handloads.
 
For people who want to shoot commercial ammo in their garand, you can an aftermarket gas plug which either vents excess gas or increases the internal volume of the gas cylinder. There are several available, and brownells stocks them. With one of these, you can shoot any commercial ammo you want.
 
Altho I've never found reason to go beyond the well proven IMR3031, IMR4895, IMR4064 and H4895 in a 7.62 Garand I did buy an adjustable gas plug to try some WC755 in handloads. WC755 is a commercial grade Olin ball propellant which was once sold in bulk by Higgenson Powders/Ammomart. It is the best performer by a nose in my .308 bolt guns and I want to try it in the 7.62 Garands for this reason. It is somewhat too slow burning for the Garand, but would be usable with an adjustable gas plug.
 
warrenlikesboats said:
WOW talk about finicky rifles! I would like to buy a .308 win Garand someday.... but it is useless to me if it cant even shoot commercial .308 win ammo reliably lol a re-loaders toy, and I dont reload.... yet :/
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To my understanding, shooting commercial ammo through a .308 or 7.62x51 Garand depends on the rifles barrel condition, and headspace. Mine just fired Federal 150gr soft points, and the only issue was the clip popped up after 1-3 rounds.
 
Not exactly. Headspace is always critical when firing any ammo, but the issue is shooting ammo with the correct burning rate to generate the proper pressure pulse at the gas port to cycle the action reliably. Most commercial .308 Win ammo is loaded with slower burning propellants with the aim of achieving higher muzzle velocity. Any .308 Win round can be fired in a Garand which is chambered for the .308 Win ctg, but doing so w/o regard to the burning rate of the propellant carries a risk of damaging the op rod. The MILSPEC propellant for both the .30-06 M2 ball and AP rounds, as well as the 7.62 NATO round, was IMR4895. Other suitable propellants include IMR3031, IMR4064 and H4895. If a person is determined to shoot commercial ammo in a Garand they are advised to do so with an adjustable gas plug. Bullets in the 150-168gr range should be used. Replacement op rods are getting scarce and expensive.
 
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