Agreed, this is what I have done for years. Got a Leica that I love to use, WHEN POSSIBLE AND PRACTICAL. I never did say range finders were "bad", the point is that MPBR is not nor never should be obselete for any serious hunter, because if you are not confident & prepared to shoot at moving deer and /or coyotes well then you are never going to kill much stuff.
Point Blank Range - Obsolete...
- Thread starter angrygopher
- Start date
Agreed, this is what I have done for years. Got a Leica that I love to use, WHEN POSSIBLE AND PRACTICAL. I never did say range finders were "bad", the point is that MPBR is not nor never should be obselete for any serious hunter, because if you are not confident & prepared to shoot at moving deer and /or coyotes well then you are never going to kill much stuff.
I don't shoot running targets that far out so yeah I've always had plenty of time. Sounds like you need to hunt with a semi auto.
So you do not shoot at anything that you can not use a range finder on and you do not shoot at anything that is moving? Sounds like you do not shoot much. Have you ever shot anything?
Oh, by the way I use a Tikka T3 .243 Win. a lot, along with a host of other bolts, mostly sakos and custom built Remingtons.
Morning coffee discussion and boss was bemoaning missing a moose at 400 yards.
Dialed the scope up to 400 and shot low. 30-06 sighted in for 100 yards.
Redfield scope and as he was questioned further all he did was turn his adjustable objective to 400.
Probably would have helped if he would have read the instructions.
Left the discussion but shared a hearty laugh with others later. A new understanding of PBR!
Dialed the scope up to 400 and shot low. 30-06 sighted in for 100 yards.
Redfield scope and as he was questioned further all he did was turn his adjustable objective to 400.
Probably would have helped if he would have read the instructions.
Left the discussion but shared a hearty laugh with others later. A new understanding of PBR!
I agree with Hoytcannon, this is how I play whenever range is an issue. Sometime it is when mid-range distance becomes more critical, like when using a muzzleloader.
i carry a range finder but never seem to use. always stumble over game at close range and usually sight in at 2 to 3 inches high depending on the round which will allow for 250 yards without hold over. pretty much my limit.
Uh yes I've shot many animals in three provinces with 4 hunting rifles and 2 bows (crossbow and compound) I also own a Tikka T3 in 6.5 Swede and it is my best shooter. I also own Remingtons and Sakos as well and I've been involved in competitive rifle shooting for years and have the trophies to prove it. I've been hunting for well on 35 years. I've also introduced at least 3 people into the sport so I've been around a block or two.
Almost all the animals I've shot have been stationary and not alarmed. I prefer the stalk and maneuver or sometimes the stand type of hunting. I use camouflage extensively as I believe it is an effective tool for hunting.
The very few I've shot trotting were at close range <100 yds and did not require any kind of range finding so I accepted the calculated risk of a moving shot and successfully took it.
Range finding is just another tool in the box and a very effective one - especially if you're bow hunting where a few yards misjudged is a miss or worse yet a wound. By the way range finding while bow hunting is done in advance using landmarks in your view so there is little movement involved when actually taking the shot
Someday most hunting scopes will have this as a standard feature just as many binos have this now because it just works so well.
I've also discovered that very few people including me can judge range really well especially if there is brush and canyons intervening. If you're one of those few that can, congratulations!
With practice I've become quick and efficient at determining exact range using bino/rangefinding and dialing (I use external target turrets on many of my optics). There is no fumbling and it's a practiced part of my routine and well worth the minuscule amount of time it takes. I also try to take the best position available when shooting. With this system I've never had to take a second shot (that would be a big disappointment)
If the PBR range thing works for you than do it. I just find ranging the distance allows less room for error and I'm all about eliminating as many variables as possible when taking the shot.
- Location
- WMU203, Alberta (YCT)
My introduction to MPBR came directly from archery, not rifle. After bow season, the extension of PBR from my archery experience to the 'easy' season seemed a logical extension. PBR works very well for archery and equally as well, it not better for powder pushed projectiles.
The limitations of rangefinders are even more glaring while archery hunting. With spot & stalk, it's a tough go to use an RF, yet ironically this is when using the laser RF is the most important. Everything is fluid, the ranges are constantly changing, the game may be feeding, the wind can change, the terrain may not be as was expected, the quarry may suddenly present itself unexpectedly in an entirely different place than expected. There is huge potential for error because spot & stalk is a very dynamic hunting technique, however, while I'm a fan of the laser rangefinder - it has its limitations.
Laser RF's are great tools for practice and excellent in hunting situations that allow the time to be used. They are not a replacement for common sense though. If you know an animal is within PBR, keep it in your pocket. If you're unsure of the distance... uh, we're not snipers. We're hunters and if you need an LRF to be sure of the distance - the time of flight 1/3 second or more... Well, that's a single step taken by your quarry to a tracking disaster.
The limitations of rangefinders are even more glaring while archery hunting. With spot & stalk, it's a tough go to use an RF, yet ironically this is when using the laser RF is the most important. Everything is fluid, the ranges are constantly changing, the game may be feeding, the wind can change, the terrain may not be as was expected, the quarry may suddenly present itself unexpectedly in an entirely different place than expected. There is huge potential for error because spot & stalk is a very dynamic hunting technique, however, while I'm a fan of the laser rangefinder - it has its limitations.
Laser RF's are great tools for practice and excellent in hunting situations that allow the time to be used. They are not a replacement for common sense though. If you know an animal is within PBR, keep it in your pocket. If you're unsure of the distance... uh, we're not snipers. We're hunters and if you need an LRF to be sure of the distance - the time of flight 1/3 second or more... Well, that's a single step taken by your quarry to a tracking disaster.
I don't get your assertion of MPBR as it relates to archery? I have been bowhunting for more than four decades, starting with homemade self bows, cedar arrows and instinctive shooting (not MPBR)... progressing to various longbows, recirves and then compounds, utilizing a single moveable pin or reticle (not MPBR), or a multi-pin sight (not MPBR)... I would ascertain that archery is the worst application of the maximum point blank range concept, since it has the most exaggerated trajectory... to use MPBR you would have to accept a very narrow target range... this is far too limiting IMO. The MPBR system works best with the flattest shooting implements, not the most arcing.
I agree - a 5 yd range error in range estimation at 30 yd can easily mean a miss or a wound. A 5 yd range error at 40 yd is way worse. A range finder is essential for archery hunting unless of course you have high confidence in your abilities to eye ball it and there are many that compete in 3D archery matches that do.
- Location
- The Conservative part of Ontario
Exactly!
- Location
- WMU203, Alberta (YCT)
40 years and never heard of PBR being used in archery? No, actually the trajectory of most arrows is very similar in nature to right around 28-32 yards. Which in truth is about the maximum distance an average hunter should be shooting. Basically, 1/10th the speed and about 1/10th the PBR.
It all boils down to disagreements between gentlemen who enjoy the same sport. If you think it's a useful tool in the box than buy one (I'm very partial to the Bino/rangefinder combo).
If you think it's a waste of money and you can't see yourself ever using one than don't get one.
I agree with the view that PBR and distance ranging can both be used but don't be surprised if you begin to rely on knowing the exact distance more and more often.
At one time I'm sure magnums, optics and bipods were considered unessential for hunting and I'm sure there were good arguments for that view. Nowadays however many hunters enjoy the efficiency that these tools bring to the sport.
If you think it's a waste of money and you can't see yourself ever using one than don't get one.
I agree with the view that PBR and distance ranging can both be used but don't be surprised if you begin to rely on knowing the exact distance more and more often.
At one time I'm sure magnums, optics and bipods were considered unessential for hunting and I'm sure there were good arguments for that view. Nowadays however many hunters enjoy the efficiency that these tools bring to the sport.
If you think you can use a dead on hold from 0 - 32 yards with a bow, which is the MPBR concept, you are going to make bad hits and experience wounding loss... how many single pin shooters use an immovable pin or do not use Kentucky windage... this is not MPBR... A 450 grain arrow @ 300 fps drops 18" from zero to 30 yards, if you think a killzone of 18" is acceptable maybe you should take up golf and spare some wildlife.
Originally Posted by woodchopper View Post
what ???
range finders.... never used one in a hunting scenario
sights are set at 2" high at 100m and then you are good out to 250m or so depending on what your shooting and you just estimate longer ranges and hold over.
I don't need to be carrying any extra kit when hunting thanks.
Exactly!
Nothing more needs to be said.
