Point of aim
- Thread starter Valiant
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fingers284
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Alberta Cowboy Ranges
Windage adjustments were made back in the day by laying the barrel between two lead bars and hitting it in the middle with another lead bar to bend the barrel without marring the steel ( hence the lead)
Years ago the reproductions were terrible. I had a early reproduction of a 1875 . They used to have a different front sight than the blade on them today. Used to have a screwed in post.
At 25 yards it was Shooting so high and far to the left you couldn't even hit paper at 25 yards. At 15 feet it was about 4 inches left and i forget how high. I modified the front sight I think on that one. Built it up with tig weld and filed it down.
There was other guys at the gun club that had open top percussion colt reproductions and they were terrible as well.
It would really suck paying big money for a antique colt revolver with top strap and having it shoot off to the side and stupid high. I wouldn't want to go modifying it very much.
Do certain barrel lengths effect this? Example 4 and 5 eights hit higher than 7 and a half?
What about models Example 73 or 92 colts?
What about manufacturer. Example webley,Smith Wesson etc.
You would think if a gun was over a hundred years old it would be sighted in by now
At 25 yards it was Shooting so high and far to the left you couldn't even hit paper at 25 yards. At 15 feet it was about 4 inches left and i forget how high. I modified the front sight I think on that one. Built it up with tig weld and filed it down.
There was other guys at the gun club that had open top percussion colt reproductions and they were terrible as well.
It would really suck paying big money for a antique colt revolver with top strap and having it shoot off to the side and stupid high. I wouldn't want to go modifying it very much.
Do certain barrel lengths effect this? Example 4 and 5 eights hit higher than 7 and a half?
What about models Example 73 or 92 colts?
What about manufacturer. Example webley,Smith Wesson etc.
You would think if a gun was over a hundred years old it would be sighted in by now
Have you ever actually done this?
If it was a cheap reproduction I wouldn't be scared to try stuff?
I don't currently own any revolvers. I've always wanted a actual real colt single action army and I have never owned or even held one in my hands.
Antique status colts are through the roof in value right now. I could afford one in a antique caliber and reload for it. It just doesn't appeal to me to put this kind of money and time into something if it's not capable of being a good shooter. Having it not shoot point of aim is not very appealing to me.
fingers284
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Alberta Cowboy Ranges
I just offered up what was "acceptably done" way back when. I haven't done the procedure myself as never had a SAA that was out further than I was acceptable with ( If it is within 2" I'm happy).
There are other ways to correct a windage issue by turning the barrel a slight bit one way or the other to move the top of the front site left or right a slight bit but that would leave you with a very unsightly tilt to your front site and possibly a loose barrel or a cracked frame at the barrel socket....I would stick with the old Colts factory remedy that I first mentioned.
Quite possibly, if your very anal about pinpoint accuracy and squeamish about what has to be done...SAA's might not be best for you .
There are other ways to correct a windage issue by turning the barrel a slight bit one way or the other to move the top of the front site left or right a slight bit but that would leave you with a very unsightly tilt to your front site and possibly a loose barrel or a cracked frame at the barrel socket....I would stick with the old Colts factory remedy that I first mentioned.
Quite possibly, if your very anal about pinpoint accuracy and squeamish about what has to be done...SAA's might not be best for you .
Well, the softer one loads, the higher it will hit is what I've read. Recoil is lifting the muzzle before the bullet leaves the barrel is the theory.
I always assumed that they shoot high at reasonable distances.
I seem to have no real problem hitting stuff at the 25 paces mark...go with a 6 o'clock POA.
The windage hold is probably bad shooting habits IMO.
We all have them, we just don't admit it.
I always assumed that they shoot high at reasonable distances.
I seem to have no real problem hitting stuff at the 25 paces mark...go with a 6 o'clock POA.
The windage hold is probably bad shooting habits IMO.
We all have them, we just don't admit it.
The thread made me take my Ruger New Vaquero for a walk today (outdoor range). Draw from the buscadero, to smash steel 200 times leaves a grin on a fellow for quite some time let me tell ya. (well okay, I missed a few times, but you know what I mean.)
The Ruger is a Colt Peacemaker clone, and the sights are dead nuts on. Which is good, 'cause you can't move 'em.
The Ruger is a Colt Peacemaker clone, and the sights are dead nuts on. Which is good, 'cause you can't move 'em.
About holding the gun wrong. Years ago when I used to be into shooting. I belonged to several clubs and it was a big deal for me when I was young and had the time. I used to do a lot of shooting. I liked 3 screw Blackhawks. Always wanted a real colt but had better things to spend money on.
I'm retired now and have the funds. Thinking about getting back into it. Honestly the colt is what I'm interested in because it's what I wanted years ago but couldn't afford.
I watch Hickok 45 and he shoots originals. He is shooting steel targets not paper but he us talking about Kentucky windage and elevation all the time. Sounds like he has owned a few and keeps the ones that shoot better or shoot to the same high and to the left hold over.
For what these guns cost up here because of our antique status weird caliper laws. It would suck to spend that kind of money for something that shoots 2 feet high and 5 inches to the right at 25 yards or something.
I'm retired now and have the funds. Thinking about getting back into it. Honestly the colt is what I'm interested in because it's what I wanted years ago but couldn't afford.
I watch Hickok 45 and he shoots originals. He is shooting steel targets not paper but he us talking about Kentucky windage and elevation all the time. Sounds like he has owned a few and keeps the ones that shoot better or shoot to the same high and to the left hold over.
For what these guns cost up here because of our antique status weird caliper laws. It would suck to spend that kind of money for something that shoots 2 feet high and 5 inches to the right at 25 yards or something.
5.5 inch, with a Bisley handle. I still allow the gun to roll up on recoil, but I appreciate the extra handle purchase from the traditional plow handle. The gun is stainless.
I haven't started handloading for 45 Colt yet, so I'm shooting factory brass loads for now while I collect my spent brass. Today I shot two boxes of Sellier and Bellot, Lead Flat Nose (LFN), 250 grain, 16.2g. Oddly, there is no advertized chrony speed on the boxes. All I can anecdotally offer is that they were hard hitting, with a soft recoil. I've shot much stouter loads in 45 Colt, again though, no noticeable change in point of impact from my point of aim. They just hit harder (...and get there faster I suppose?).
I don't spend enough time with SA revolvers, I like them...I even fanned off 3 rounds today which is really fun and really, really, inaccurate, but fun.
I know the round can be loaded up to nearly .44 REM MAG ballistics, and if any gun could take a steady diet of such loads, it'd be the Ruger line and who knows I may load some spicy rounds to see how they react, but for now, I'm happy to just shoot factory loads.
When Hickok is talking about hold overs and Kentucky windage, he's taking incredibly long shots. That large gong of his has got to be more than 100m out there. The sights on any pistol aren't going to put you on a target out there. He knows the drop on a 250 grain projectile (to use 45 Colt as an example) because he's shot thousands of rounds with those pistols. He therefore knows to aim over the gong a foot or more to allow the bullet to fall on the gong. His comments about "windage" could be from the wind, but more likely he's commenting on how that particular lot of ammo that he's shooting seems to print, so he compensates. It's all just a high speed dart game.
I don't shoot handguns much past 7m (21 feet).
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the originals that I have shot, tended to shoot quite high; in my memory, 8 inches to 10 inches high at 25 yards. My impression is that during the Civil War, calvary charged towards the enemy, shooting with their revolvers and it would make sense to have the sights set for 50 to 75 yards
On the subject of bending the barrel using lead bars, I am pretty skeptical how much you might accomplish give the relatively short length of the barrel
cheers mooncoon
On the subject of bending the barrel using lead bars, I am pretty skeptical how much you might accomplish give the relatively short length of the barrel
cheers mooncoon
About fanning a single action. Apparently you can get chips in the lockup notches on the cylinder. Not on lead side but opposite side. Supposedly one of the things to look for on a antique colt.
Interesting the Bisley hits POA. Years ago with 1911 colts if I remember right. Hotter the load the lower it shot. With Blackhawks with colt 1873 style grips it was just the opposite .
I'm just guessing but you would think with a 1873 the shorter the barrel the more the gun would roll because of recoil and shoot higher?
Years ago we had a hundred yard pistol range at the gun club. With basically any adjustable sight ruger single action the accuracy was definitely there. We all shot quite regularly. Had young eyes then to. There was three of us that did a lot of shooting compared to other members and things get easier with lots of regular practice.
Those three screw rugers were great guns. I had two of them. Regret selling them now.
Interesting the Bisley hits POA. Years ago with 1911 colts if I remember right. Hotter the load the lower it shot. With Blackhawks with colt 1873 style grips it was just the opposite .
I'm just guessing but you would think with a 1873 the shorter the barrel the more the gun would roll because of recoil and shoot higher?
Years ago we had a hundred yard pistol range at the gun club. With basically any adjustable sight ruger single action the accuracy was definitely there. We all shot quite regularly. Had young eyes then to. There was three of us that did a lot of shooting compared to other members and things get easier with lots of regular practice.
Those three screw rugers were great guns. I had two of them. Regret selling them now.
Although fun, fanning has zero practicality. One has to hold the revolver as level as humanly possible which causes low hits because you're fighting the roll of the gun from the recoil, rather than just letting it happen. Fanning is faster, but the revolver is fairly fast if you just let it roll, as the recoil places the dropped hammer right next to your thumb for the next round. Not semi-auto fast (unless you're Michalek), but pretty quick, and at 7 yards, plenty accurate.
There is a guy on utube. TUCCOtheratt
Nothing practical about it. Entertainment value only. But does show what must be a heck of a lot of practice can do.
The guns have weak mainspring. The locking bolt and leads were modified. Depending on type of gun the lock notches are modified,reduced loads.
Look him up if you are interested in this. I see no value in fast draw, hip shooting or Fanning triple shots but he is entertaining to watch
I have an excellent S&W double action in .44 Russian. Using the sights, it hit high and left no matter the bullet or charge. I fabricated an oversized foresight and when I had it installed I went to the range. From a rest, I'd take a shot (using the sights) and then file it. Take another shot, see where I hit, file it some more. Shoot and repeat until I had the point of impact was my point of aim. Pic one is the unfiled sight installed and pic two is the finished product.
