Police Sidearms
- Thread starter younger
- Start date
- Location
- Downtown Vancouver, BC
NAA said:Rumour has it that Greater Victoria ERT is going to the .45 G.A.P.
Guess I better be on my best behaviour then! Hahaha.
I'm actually in Saanich, which is like a part of Victoria to the north, where people with (typically) more money live. Whenever I deal with cops, it's always Saanich Traffic Police...if you catch my drift.
Departmental Issue
The O.P.P. have used the Sig 40's for better than a decade now,most city departments are using S&W 40S&W's of some model,detectives have moved to the ultra conceilable 9mm compact/semi-compact auto's and special op's usually get all the fun stuff specific to S.W.A.T. requirements.
Just an Observant Citizen!!!!!!!!!!!
The O.P.P. have used the Sig 40's for better than a decade now,most city departments are using S&W 40S&W's of some model,detectives have moved to the ultra conceilable 9mm compact/semi-compact auto's and special op's usually get all the fun stuff specific to S.W.A.T. requirements.
Just an Observant Citizen!!!!!!!!!!!
Pure Energy said:
I'm assuming they are using the Beretta 96 D which is double action only. There is no external safety. The mentality is the trigger is the safety and it is a long, heavy trigger pull.
. I carry one right now and can't wait to get rid of it and carry the SIG 226R DAK.
North Bay did away with the berreta, now they carry Glock 22. Had a teacher that used to be the OPP range officer, siad the NBPD was there one day too, heard a very loud pop, walked down, turns out the barrel blew up on the berreta. Later that day he heard it again, walked down and sure enough another barrel popped. Now they carry Glock...
Beretta's
As previously mentioned there have been problems with Beretta's. The locking blocks have been cracking and shearing off, this in no way would explode the barrel. (Although I have never seen the locking block break or had it happen to any of the guns on the range)Unless someone was actually there, I find this highly suspect. Some Dept.s simply wanted new guns and even though the locking block problem had never happened, they used it to get new sidearms. There has been documented cases in the states.
I have used a Beretta for more then 10yrs and have put in excess of 8000rds down range with 2 failures, due to me not the gun.
The reason that most depts, York, Waterloo, Stratford, are going to the Glock or some other pistol, is simply no customer support. After several thousand rounds, guns need to be refurbed, the price of doing this to a Beretta as a opposed to buying a complete new gun just didn't make sense, so several depts are going to the Glock.
Why Glock? Customer service, and they offer a trade in allowance for the Beretta's and they are several hundred cheaper then a Sig, Beretta etc.
Yes there is a huge financial consideration, if police got the best gun, they would all be carrying the P7M10, or a P7M13 which were available at the time when Ont switched in 1994.
Beretta's are good sidearms, as are Sig's, Glocks and others.
I'm not a glock basher or a Beretta ad vacate, but I've seen problems with Sigs, Glocks and others.
My 2 cents.
As previously mentioned there have been problems with Beretta's. The locking blocks have been cracking and shearing off, this in no way would explode the barrel. (Although I have never seen the locking block break or had it happen to any of the guns on the range)Unless someone was actually there, I find this highly suspect. Some Dept.s simply wanted new guns and even though the locking block problem had never happened, they used it to get new sidearms. There has been documented cases in the states.
I have used a Beretta for more then 10yrs and have put in excess of 8000rds down range with 2 failures, due to me not the gun.
The reason that most depts, York, Waterloo, Stratford, are going to the Glock or some other pistol, is simply no customer support. After several thousand rounds, guns need to be refurbed, the price of doing this to a Beretta as a opposed to buying a complete new gun just didn't make sense, so several depts are going to the Glock.
Why Glock? Customer service, and they offer a trade in allowance for the Beretta's and they are several hundred cheaper then a Sig, Beretta etc.
Yes there is a huge financial consideration, if police got the best gun, they would all be carrying the P7M10, or a P7M13 which were available at the time when Ont switched in 1994.
Beretta's are good sidearms, as are Sig's, Glocks and others.
I'm not a glock basher or a Beretta ad vacate, but I've seen problems with Sigs, Glocks and others.
My 2 cents.
IM_Lugger said:can you give us more info? Barrels don't just "pop" for no reason....
Thats pretty much the story I was told by my teacher, There was something with high round count that the firearms had, I too was a bit skeptical too, but with his 30 plus years in the O.P.P, on the local E.R.T, T.R.U, and then the chief training officer for BLOCK and on the range, I lean to believe the man.
Lambo said:
I do not doubt it, but to have two catastrophic failures in one session is unlikely.
Unlike your teacher, I only have 18yrs on the job, I have been involved with the selection of firearms for other dept's as well as my own. I'm a Beretta, Sig, Glock, AR15(Colt),and Ruger armorer. I'm a firearms instructor and I am on the ERT as well as a team leader. I am not the expert your teacher appears to be, but do have some experience in the area of police firearms. I would be very interested in hearing from your teacher as to these two failures and the cause.
I will send you my Email addy and he can contact me in person.
bjsgear said:
A good friend of mine is a York Region police officer, and he's carrying a Glock 22 (.40S&W). Some of the other officers still have Berettas, but I'm not sure whether it's the 92 (9mm) or the 96 (.40S&W).
I'm not so sure Peel uses Glocks. I've lived in Peel all my life and as far back as I can remember they've carried a .40S&W similar to this:
I've recently been hired as a recruit constable with Peel, and I've been told that my class will likely be the first to be issued the new Smith & Wesson M&P .40:
Tom
In British Columbia there is a regulation (subordinate legislation) to the Police Act called the "Use of Force Regulation" which sets out the requirements for sidearms and ammunition issued to police officers under the Police Act (everyone that isn't RCMP):
http://www.qp.gov.bc.ca/statreg/reg/P/Police/203_98.htm
Section 3 is as follows:
Firearms and ammunition
3 (1) Subject to subsection (3), if a chief constable carries a firearm or authorizes a member of his or her police force to carry a firearm, the firearm must be a semi-automatic pistol with the following specifications:
(a) double/single or double action-only trigger mechanism;
(b) single action trigger force of not less than 1.36 kg;
(c) hammer/firing pin block safety mechanism;
(d) barrel of not less than 76 mm and not more than 127 mm in length.
(2) Subject to subsection (3), the ammunition used in a firearm described under subsection (1) must be 0.40 calibre Smith and Wesson factory loaded cartridges with the following specifications:
(a) hollow point bullet design;
(b) bullet weight no less than 9.523 grams (147 grain);
(c) muzzle velocity between 290 m/second to 396 m/second, when fired in a firearm referred to in subsection (1).
(3) The chief constable or a police officer designated in writing by the chief constable may authorize a member of his or her police force to carry, for a special purpose, a firearm and ammunition of a type other than that referred to in this section.
(4) If an authorization is made under subsection (3), the chief constable must, on the request of the director, submit a report on all special firearms and ammunition issued and the reason for issuing them.
(5) Before a firearm or ammunition is issued under this section, the chief constable or a police officer designated by the chief constable must be satisfied that the officer to whom it is issued has completed a training course and been qualified or requalified on its use under section 10 (1).
(6) A member of a police force must not carry a firearm or ammunition other than the firearm and ammunition issued by the chief constable or police officer designated by the chief constable.
(7) Despite subsections (1) and (2), in relation to a designated policing or law enforcement unit, the director may specify the type of firearm and ammunition that is to be used.
The Police forces in B.C., other than the RCMP, are as follows:
Abbotsford
BCCFSEU (Combined Forces Special Enforcement Unit, formerly the Organized Crime Agency)
Central Saanich
Delta
GVTAPS (Greater Vancouver Transportation Authority Police Service, better known as the Transit Police)
Nelson
New Westminster
Oak Bay
Port Moody
Saanich
Vancouver
Victoria
West Vancouver
There is also the:
Kitasoo Xaixais Police Service
Stl’atl’imx Tribal Police
both of which carry firearms, but I'm not sure which ones.
To the best of my knowledge, the Glock 22 is carried by regular members of the Delta, New West, West Van and Transit Police - and probably a lot more. I just see members of these organizations regularly in my line of work.
The VPD used Beretta's for a long time (96's, as mandated by the regulation), but now have apparantly moved to a SIG 226. I saw some VPD guys yesterday and noticed that the grips sticking out of their holsters were clearly SIGs. It looks like they had new Safariland holsters as well. They had some fairly cheesy looking holsters for their Berettas - with a fold over piece of leather. I know that Delta (and I think New West) use a Safariland 6004-type holster. West Van uses a Safariland Raptor.
Several departments (West Van and Abbotsford anyway) must have access to AR-15 type rifles, either in the trunks or in the offices.... as I've seen regular uniform members carrying them to "incidents" on the news (and no they were not ERT members).
http://www.qp.gov.bc.ca/statreg/reg/P/Police/203_98.htm
Section 3 is as follows:
Firearms and ammunition
3 (1) Subject to subsection (3), if a chief constable carries a firearm or authorizes a member of his or her police force to carry a firearm, the firearm must be a semi-automatic pistol with the following specifications:
(a) double/single or double action-only trigger mechanism;
(b) single action trigger force of not less than 1.36 kg;
(c) hammer/firing pin block safety mechanism;
(d) barrel of not less than 76 mm and not more than 127 mm in length.
(2) Subject to subsection (3), the ammunition used in a firearm described under subsection (1) must be 0.40 calibre Smith and Wesson factory loaded cartridges with the following specifications:
(a) hollow point bullet design;
(b) bullet weight no less than 9.523 grams (147 grain);
(c) muzzle velocity between 290 m/second to 396 m/second, when fired in a firearm referred to in subsection (1).
(3) The chief constable or a police officer designated in writing by the chief constable may authorize a member of his or her police force to carry, for a special purpose, a firearm and ammunition of a type other than that referred to in this section.
(4) If an authorization is made under subsection (3), the chief constable must, on the request of the director, submit a report on all special firearms and ammunition issued and the reason for issuing them.
(5) Before a firearm or ammunition is issued under this section, the chief constable or a police officer designated by the chief constable must be satisfied that the officer to whom it is issued has completed a training course and been qualified or requalified on its use under section 10 (1).
(6) A member of a police force must not carry a firearm or ammunition other than the firearm and ammunition issued by the chief constable or police officer designated by the chief constable.
(7) Despite subsections (1) and (2), in relation to a designated policing or law enforcement unit, the director may specify the type of firearm and ammunition that is to be used.
The Police forces in B.C., other than the RCMP, are as follows:
Abbotsford
BCCFSEU (Combined Forces Special Enforcement Unit, formerly the Organized Crime Agency)
Central Saanich
Delta
GVTAPS (Greater Vancouver Transportation Authority Police Service, better known as the Transit Police)
Nelson
New Westminster
Oak Bay
Port Moody
Saanich
Vancouver
Victoria
West Vancouver
There is also the:
Kitasoo Xaixais Police Service
Stl’atl’imx Tribal Police
both of which carry firearms, but I'm not sure which ones.
To the best of my knowledge, the Glock 22 is carried by regular members of the Delta, New West, West Van and Transit Police - and probably a lot more. I just see members of these organizations regularly in my line of work.
The VPD used Beretta's for a long time (96's, as mandated by the regulation), but now have apparantly moved to a SIG 226. I saw some VPD guys yesterday and noticed that the grips sticking out of their holsters were clearly SIGs. It looks like they had new Safariland holsters as well. They had some fairly cheesy looking holsters for their Berettas - with a fold over piece of leather. I know that Delta (and I think New West) use a Safariland 6004-type holster. West Van uses a Safariland Raptor.
Several departments (West Van and Abbotsford anyway) must have access to AR-15 type rifles, either in the trunks or in the offices.... as I've seen regular uniform members carrying them to "incidents" on the news (and no they were not ERT members).
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Steve David
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Oshawa, Ontario
I was told just last night by a very good source that the Canadian Customs Service is going to go with the Smith and Wessom M&P .40.
I've been wondering about that for awhile as well (since Stockwell announced it last year I guessSteve David said:
). Smith & Wesson must have some dirt on the Federal Government or something. How did the Smith ever beat out the SIG P226 for the RCMP contract?? Fortunately for the Border Services agents, Smith autos seem to have caught up with the market a bit with the introduction of the new M&Ps.
A couple other ones to think about:
I see Deputy Sheriff's in my line of work a lot. Despite having a very cordial relationship with a number of Deputies, I've never gotten up the gumption to ask them about their kit. I think it is a Smith auto similar to what the RCMP carry though. The Sheriff's duty gear is butt ugly though. It's all basketweave.
I believe that federal Fisheries Officers also carry those RCMP-style Smith autos.
B.C. Conservation officers also carry sidearms. You always seem them on the news everytime there is a cougar or bear story. From a distance it looks like they are carrying a Glock - and that would certainly fit in with their provincially mandated counterparts in the police. The most recent agency to begin carrying firarms in B.C. is the Transit police - and they went with the Glock 22.
