Polish contract Ceska Zbrojovka vz 24 pistols

fugawi

fugawi

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Anyone know anything about a possible prewar Polish contract for the Ceska Zbrojovka vz 24 pistol. On the Carbines for Collectors web site they mention a Romanian contract but nothing about a Polish one.

I have it from a reliable source that these pistols were bought privately by Polish officers prewar but they also received a model number (automatyczny Pistolet wz. 28). Was there an official procurement such as done by the Finns and Germans? (I'm well aware that the Finns purchased captured Czech pistols from the Germans who also issued captured Czech pistols to their own military).

Thanks for any help.
 
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"Seek and Ye shall Find!"

To somewhat answer my own question I found this:

"Two-hundred pre-production pistols were delivered to the Czech Armament Commission for testing in May of 1925.... The Commission approved the design by August of 1925, and the redesigned gun was designated the vz.24...

The first government order for 20,000 vz.24 pistols was completed in June of 1926...

100,000 pistols had been delivered to fulfill additional government contracts...[but] not delivered until 1931...

An additional 1400 were made in 1935, and 70,000 were made between 1936 and 1938 to fulfill later government contracts...

Approximately 1700 were sold to Poland, and another few hundred to Lithuania."

So it appears that there was a procurement of the vz.24 pistol by the Polish authorities but when? I'm thinking 1928 as weapons are often designated either by the year of design or adoption (Polish designation wz.28).

I also found that in 1929 the Poles were interested in producing a modified version of the vz.24 pistol which due to the high cost of the license was abandoned (The vz.24 had been simplified by Ceska Zbrojovka from a locked breech design to a blowback design and labelled the vz.27). The decision to not license the modified vz.24 lead to the design and production of the Radom Vis wz.35.

Anyone have more info on the CZ vz.24 in Polish service? Thx.
 
Here's more...

From William York's new book on the Radom VIS 35, he states that the Polish Ministry of the Treasury purchased 1700 vz.24 from Ceska Zbrojovka in 1929-30. He also states that Polish military authorities were considering a modified version of the vz.24 to produce under license for the Polish Armed Forces. This is described as the CZ vz.28. For various reasons the Poles decided not to produce the vz.28 under license.

From a Czech web site I read that the Poles had initially approached Ceska Zbrojovka about the possibility of CZ designing and producing a reliable modern military revolver. CZ indicated that this would not be economically feasible and suggested a modification of its vz.24 using what was described as a 'revolver trigger'. It seems that this might be a DAO action. This web site further states that 2500+ Pistole vz.28 were eventually exported to Poland, "but the available data can not reliably determine whether they were all equipped with trigger mechanism described. The same model designation (vz.28) was used for the export model Pistole vz.24, equipped with an extended pistol grip and attachable wooden stock but with a normal single action trigger."

Another Czech web site states that the Poles did indeed purchased the vz.28 with a increased magazine capacity (nine rounds instead of eight) new bakelite grips (reportedly with the Polish national Eagle embossed) and some pistols slotted for a shoulder stock. This web site gives the following production figures:

Poland ordered pistole vz.28 in three parts: 730 pistols (230 with shoulder stock) and 20,000 rounds of ammunition ordered and delivered in 1929; 1000 pistols and 5000 rounds of ammunition in 1930; and finally, in March 1931, the last shipment of 800 weapons and 55,000 rounds of ammunition - a total of 2,530 pistole vz.28 and 80,000 rounds of ammunition.

I paraphrased the Google Translate as some of the words suggested were hilarious.

I have also found some pics which I will post later.
 
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For your viewing enjoyment...

WFgWq.jpg

CZ vz.24 - 1,700 were purchased by the Polish Ministry of the Treasury.

RBIAw.jpg

CZ vz.24 export (CZ vz.28) with shoulder stock. Two hundred and thirty with and 2,300 without were purchased for the Polish military.

U62ls.jpg

CZ vz.28 with modified DAO trigger. Some vz.28 with the DAO trigger were reportedly sold to the Polish military.

LiiGM.jpg

Trigger modification to DAO

dsO9M.jpg

Polish wz.28 with embossed eagle - note in this drawing the trigger appears similar to the CZ vz.24
 
I love that youre having a thread all to yourself. HAHA.

Its cool that your tracking this info down. Very interesting.

Im not sure yet if I think the gun looks cool or ugly......looks better with the DAO trigger thats for sure.
 
Well I hoped that somebody else would contribute but...

Maybe if I was researching the CZ in German use then it would be a hot topic. There is more about the use of Czech firearms by the Germans available. (funny how the 'vaulted' German war machine had to borrow other nations weapons - you didn't see Marines supplementing their Garands with Arisakas).

I had to use Google Translate to decipher a few Czech web sites.

BTW I don't think the vz.24/28 is ugly - you want ugly then look at a CZ vz.38

SMgR8.jpg
 
yep that one is ugly.

I dont know if ugly is the right word, maybe awkard. The handle angle looks wierd.

It is odd no one else is interested as there are lots of guys who like these tyoes of pistols.

And while the americans didnt use "borrowed" weapons. The russians and british sure did. But they werent taken by force.
 
Very interesting Fugawi - I really like my CZ-38 (ugly outline, but beautifully made and very clever takedown) and I'd love to own some other CZ pistols, but unfortunately I don't have 12/6.
 
Thanks Gaff. Not looking for a CZ vz.27. Both are prohibited. The vz.27 is a simplified vz.24. I started this thread for information only.

One of the Czech web sites said CZ was desperate for sales. The only foreign contracts that I've been able to find are the sales to Poland, Lithuania and the reported sale to Rumania.

"Since starting production of the vz 24, the company had tried to promote sales outside of Czechoslovakia. They were encouraged by the Military who wanted foreign sales to help defray their investment, and reduce the cost of future purchases. If necessary, the Military would even allow allocation of pistols from their orders, to fill potential foreign sales.

The end of the Czechoslovak Government orders gave additional impetus to selling the vz 24 elsewhere. Unfortunately, market conditions were in a decline. The world was in the throes of a Great Depression and the Ceska Zbrojovka was a small company trying to compete with the world's largest armament cartels. Also the small caliber of the vz 24 could not compete with the larger calibers that were becoming the vogue in Military circles."

As Nyles stated the Czech pistols are nicely made. I have one of those ugly duckling CZ vz.38s. Interestingly (at least to me) the work done on the DAO trigger for the vz.28 lead to the development of the vz.38 which some regard as the first production DAO pistol. If anyone wants more info PM me.
 
fugawi said:
"Seek and Ye shall Find!"

To somewhat answer my own question I found this:

"Two-hundred pre-production pistols were delivered to the Czech Armament Commission for testing in May of 1925.... The Commission approved the design by August of 1925, and the redesigned gun was designated the vz.24...

The first government order for 20,000 vz.24 pistols was completed in June of 1926...

100,000 pistols had been delivered to fulfill additional government contracts...[but] not delivered until 1931...

An additional 1400 were made in 1935, and 70,000 were made between 1936 and 1938 to fulfill later government contracts...

Approximately 1700 were sold to Poland, and another few hundred to Lithuania."
Click to expand...


Great thread. I can see that we share the same interest in the history attached to firearms, though probably with different niches of interest. I also have a tendancy to search out the finest details of info related to whatever I'm focused on. Seems like more than a few people here, including some of my friends, are basically just interested in shooting things. But so much of the enjoyment is missed if you're not learning and discovering at the same time. Thanks for taking the time to share what you're learning.
 
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