Polish Radom Vis wz 35 Navy

The 1939 radom Vis wz 35 you are showing on the picture has not pre alphabet german number , it is regular pre war polish pistol with it's pre war polish serial number, and the pistol has polish army proof on the trigger guard.
 
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As a point of interest this was posted on Jan Still's Forum in 2004 by Jan Still.
I suspect that more examples have turned up since then and 'perhaps' more is known about these KM marked Radoms.

1. 08-17-2004, 12:26 AM#20

Jan C Still
Owner-Operator
Join Date
Aug 2003
Location
AK, USA.
Posts
4,328


The KM Radom shown on page 180 of Axis Pistols has been in my collection for more than 20 years and was at that time traced back to its import into the United States with a few other KM Radoms.

In addition to the eagle pantographed on its left slide, it bears a N/323 property number on its front strap and on the bottom of its magazine. Its serial number 5694 fits closely with KM Radoms 5693 and 5895 (see table page 183 Axis Pistols.). It lacks a lanyard loop and has a blued barrel as is typical of KM Radoms.

KM Radom sn 5694, (lacking its lanyard and with a blued barrel), and with property number N/323, is not a questionable KM Radom.
Jan
Jan C Still
Site Owner - Operator

NOTE;
The Third Printing of 'Axis Pistols' with Update was done in 1989.

Page 180 in Axis Pistols.
Page180inJanStillsBookAxisPistols.jpg


Property numbers on the grip strap and on the bottom of the magazine.
Propertynumbersonthegripstrapandthebottomofthemagazine.jpg


Commentary regarding KM marked Radoms.
CommentaryregardingKMmarkedRadoms.jpg


Page 75 in Axis Pistols.
Page75inAxisPistols.jpg


This is a great reference book.

AgreatreferencebooktoownforWWIIGermanandAxispistols.jpg


Mark Castel's KM marked Radom pistol with navy property markings on the grip strap and magazine.
This pistol was found after Axis Pistols was published.

MarkCastelsKMmarkedRadom.jpg


David
 
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"Axis Pistols" is a nice book, (my KM radom magazines have no navy markings), if someone can trace his gun to the place of origin it's best way.
Normal KM Radom is valued I believe four times more than regular pre alphabet radom , it's good to have eyes open some publications are worning about KM fakes.
 
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Mark44

Thankyou for the photos of your Radom pistol, I have been away so have not had a chance to get back to this thread. let me tell you this right upfront--authenticating any German Naval pistol whether it be a radom,luger,mauser or any other German manufactured pistol whether foreign manufacture or liberated small arm is not a task that is taken lightly by anyone whom values their reputation as a serious German pistol collector.

I have been around the block several times and went head to head with many like minded German pistol collectors, some owners appreciate what you tell them while others are very head strung and opinionated--that would include myself. I value my reputation as a pistol collector.

First off you have a very nice Radom, David has asked you for another set of pictures which it is your choice to comply or not.

I do not agree that the KM acceptance has to be directly below the notch,It can vary slightly, I do however agree that the barrel has to be in the blue, Lanyard ring absent,pantographed N property mark on the grip strap with an pantographed German KM Eagle that is well defined on the frame.

While I like your Km eagle on the slide I have a issue with the serial number as you have stated it is prewar Polish---serial numbers were installed late in production, I can accept that your pistol has a 1939 date with the Polish Eagle acceptance on the slide, however my point is that unless the Germans liberated your pistol from the Poles it is my opinion that the Germans did not serial your slide and the pistol falls outside serialization that would be the normal course of action in the occupied factory.

Variances in any small arms did occur but if collectors accept any pistol yours included to be correct then that would diminish existing pistols that were put to the test of authentication.

To me it does not matter how long a pistol has been in any collection, 1 yr 20 yrs is a mute point, facts have to be proven, your pistol is an anomally outside of the norm for KM Radoms, it is not the Polish Eagle or the 1939 date, it is the serial number at issue that troubles me. I am certainly not calling your pistol bogus or a fake at this time. It is entirely up to you whether you wish other opinions or not.

Take seriously to heart the request made by others replying to this thread about additional photos and collectively the members here on CGN will help you.
 
Dear Imperial Luger, in Axis Pistols book on page 72 you can find Radom with german pre alphabet serial number 10704 ,it has polish and german markings with date 1939. My KM radom has also german pre alphabet serial number, it is 10754, the slide inside 10754, barrel is 754.( I did not say that this number is pre war polish, like in the post # 39).
German occupation (also pre alphabet)serial numbers on radom receivers are located farther from the take down pin and look larger than pre war polish. I will take more pictures just have to find the way to make close ups with new camera.
 
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Pre alphabet german CAPTURED PARTS gun, (not captured pre war pistol etc.. ) all pre alphabet occupation radoms are made using pre war slides and receivers, some of the slides had polish pre war markings with year 1939 already on them.(look berger book page 21)
The Radom I do show is made using pre war parts ,has only german serial numbers, Please do note- on the slide polish pre war TEST FIRE PROOF(small eagle) is absent.
I bought whole rig, there is still grease inside the pistol, and in the spare magazine .
01_zps9d54455d.jpg
 
mark44 said:
I do have more.. :)
Click to expand...

I have just one... but its a start.

dilligaf850 said:
with all the knowledge in this forum may I ask a question?
mine is an E series serial #where would that fall as "Just a production"
Click to expand...

I can't answer your question with certainty but my understanding is that there were 10,000 blocks with E series in both 1st and 2nd alphabet production series.
 
dilligaf850 said:
with all the knowledge in this forum may I ask a question?
mine is an E series serial #where would that fall as "Just a production"
Click to expand...
Is your E series from first alphabet or the second? The first alphabet series most often will have stock slot, I did see pre war polish made slide on one of them, ( occupation markings only). Frame will have finger cuts close to the trigger.Some frames from that time do have pre war production control proofs on the right side of trigger guard,some will have ,german number 2.
 
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