Poll: How long should you have to wait for match results?

[ckc123]

I would love to see an all electronic system........but in the mean time we need to use good old paper and pen.

I'll friggen build you one.. how about that for volunteering!! But only if there is a real interest in using it.. I'm not going to waste me time to build a system that no one uses..

 

[Madness]

whats there to build?
the auto scoring system is allready made, tested and in use through out the world

 

[ckc123]

The one problem is that it's not an offical scoring program.. and there is no integration to a greater organization (like IPSC ontario, and calculating classifications, or posting results on a common location, etc).

There could be a lot of improvements made by just putting a "wrapper" around MSS so that the scoring is still "official", but integrates into a larger community better.

 

[Madness]

I think ASS has an interface with MSS and EZwinScore,

 

[ckc123]

ASS in-ter-face

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

[Quigley]

There could be a lot of improvements made by just putting a "wrapper" around MSS so that the scoring is still "official", but integrates into a larger community better.

Correct. It would have to work with an approved scoring system (there are currently 2) or we would need apprval from our RD.


9.11.1

The scoring programs approved by IPSC are the Match Scoring System (MSS) and Windows® Match Scoring System (WinMSS). No other scoring program must be used for any IPSC sanctioned match without the prior written approval of the Regional Director of the host Region. In the case of MSS and WinMSS the most recent versions of the scoring programs available from the IPSC website are to be used.

 

[Madness]

repeat after me, everything's legal as long as you don't get caught.

 

[ckc123]

repeat after me, everything's legal as long as you don't get caught.

you mean until the first sore loser at the match takes it to arbitration? Like that would never happen

 

[Madness]

#### em, you only have an hour after the results to protest. Since it takes a few days to get put online there s.o.l.

 

[relliott]

The one problem is that it's not an offical scoring program.. and there is no integration to a greater organization (like IPSC ontario, and calculating classifications, or posting results on a common location, etc).

There could be a lot of improvements made by just putting a "wrapper" around MSS so that the scoring is still "official", but integrates into a larger community better.

See? Now we're talking solutions rather than problems. Cool!

 

[maurice]

"I love it when a plan comes together",......A-team's Hannibal.

This thread has all the recipes for a nasty little war of a soap opera.......now look at....you guys are coming to solutions......starting to get a long,...etc.etc..

arrggh...I can feel the love.....

 

[AlexS]

REsults

I asked before and so did Hungry Beagle. are we talking about the posting of the match results at the end of the match or are we talking about getting the results up on the internet?

In Alberta are match results are done up by the end of the day. we do awards right after tear down. we generally have a 100 people for our qualifier matches . our Provincials had 140 and we still had results ready by the end of tear down.

The results get posted on our website with 72 hours or less (thanks Kevin) normally, however sometimes they do take longer because of life. while it is nice to have the results up on the net to review ones performance (or lack there of) it is not a necessity!

Yes Walter, we are talking about results at the match. That's wishfull thinking mostly around here. Standard Ontario practice is for someone to take the scoresheets home, total them up and enter them into the appropriate system and when that's done they are sent to the webmaster to post on the Internet. He goes through all the competitors to weed out non-members, etc..... This process takes anywhere from 2 to7 to days usually. Sometimes a whole lot longer. Rarely are results finished along with the match. Those that do, great!! Black doeswhen he runs stuff at Burlington and Wentworth. Nowadays, I think there is just no excuse to not have them entered during the match.
A.

 

[curtdad]

Shooters pay for a service when they pay to shoot a match, the service being the match itself and part of the match is the results. So if you don't want to put the effort into getting results out quickly then why put on the match. You wouldn't hold a match if you didn't have RO's you could count on so why would you do it without a good states crew?
On the other hand it's not always the match staff that slows things down, we have a speed bump in Ontario for results, they need to be sent to a third party before being posted online. So even though the stats person did a great job and had the results finished and e-mail'd 30 min after the last shot of a sunday match, they may not get posted untill Monday or Tuesday.
What we need is a self serve section on the IPSC-ONT site where the we can upload the stats directly ourselves.
before anyone starts #####ing about the start of my post, I've setup, worked and worked on the states for a fair amount of matches and practice what I preach, so I'm not just s**tting out my mouth like most people on here tend to do.

We are probably the same as most shooters, can't wait to see the results!(usually don't want to)I am not sure how other clubs do it but as the stats director of my home club, after we have submitted the final results to Bud, we email results to all competitors that we have email adresses for. This is usually done the day of the match but no later than 24 hrs.

Sig
DVC

 

[stormbringer]

Nowadays, I think there is just no excuse to not have them entered during the match.
A.

I will take "not enough vounteers for $500 Alex"


Edited to add.........that works on multiple levels!

 

[Madness]

When Windsor puts on a level2 we have the results finished before the last squad has packed their gear up or within a few minutes and they are sent to Bud within a few hours. Any hold up is due to IPSC Ontario. It was aid that the results are checked for non members before they get uploaded, the MD's are more then capable of doing that job so if they can uplaod them selves it will speed up the process.

 

[kuzzyca]

personally as far as im concerened this is a game, win or lose its a hell of a way to spend a day doing what i love as far as scores go i look at them on the website and honestly i have no clue what they mean and i dont really care, i judge the quality of a match by my enjoyment of it not how fast they tell me how bad i shot

just my 2 cents.

 

[guntrainer]

time for scores

it would be nice if we life in a perfect world and everything could be done right away, but reminder it is not a paid job and family comes first,truely is it that important that you find your scores one three or four weeks latter,you shoot for fun???????? don,t you

 

[Madness]

weeks? Some of us shoot more then once a month and I would prefer to know one weekends results before the next weekends match that way I have a better understanding of how the match went. Results to stages you can't remember shooting don't really help much. Staffing for stats needs to be on the top of the todo list when running matches, rather then something you figure out after everything else is done. We live and die by volunteers but if you volunteer to do a job then you should do it right.

 

[stormbringer]

: We live and die by volunteers but if you volunteer to do a job then you should do it right.

Yes my good man........

But!

Does that mean that you get to conscript volunteers?

I mean if due to some act of god (or the flying spaghetti monster) there are not enough volunteers..

Then what?

To me it would be prudent to put the volunteers you do have towards running the match and then work on the stats afterwards.

You are correct we live or die by our volunteers..............sadly some clubs are at the point of being in a coma and the prospects are not good for recovery.

 

[40cal]

Wow, happy New Year everyone! Some real passion out there.

Listen, no one out there with half a brain would detract from the enormous volunteer effort that goes into running our matches. I know some people whine and carp about things unreasonably and that seriously sticks in the craw, but by and large the work is deeply appreciated by most of us who don't or can't help anywhere near as much as we should. That said, I think the results issue is an important one, but that we are barking up the wrong tree in this debate.

It's not about competency or the effort or the will to do it or the lack thereof. To my mind this issue simply derives from the system we use. For the information gathering, processing and dissemination portion of running a match we are still using basically the same approach that we used in the `80's, and technology has absolutely leaped forward in the mean time, just as it has with the competition guns we now use. Hell, they used to time stages (way back when) with stop watches, and then shot timers came on the scene and everything changed for the better. The sport suddenly had real credibility since a clear winner could now be assigned. It was no longer just a pick-up game.

With our modern technology (laptop, Palm Pilot, wireless connections) it is possible to have matches scored pretty much instantly with no extra effort on the part of the match staff; considerably less effort in fact. It is possible to upload interim results to a club web page on a squad by squad basis if you want (seen it done). The first time I saw this sort of thing done was at an Area 8 Championship shepherded by Rob Boudrie, who has always been something of a techno-nerd, so it would make sense that he would pioneer this sort of thing. I was quite simply awe-struck, and immediately saw this as the way of the future. And as an up-side it completely removed the possibility of key-stroke error, illegible score sheets, and an extra level of laborious data entry since it's all wireless...just point and click.

Yes, the technology would cost some money to purchase and set up, but if there's a will to do it and everyone can see the benefit, I think most of us would be willing to pitch in a couple of extra bucks over the course of a few matches for each club to upgrade their equipment. Steel, props, targets, timers, etc....all cost money, but we budget these costs and plan for them. We could do this here and the results problem just....goes away.

One issue I've had with our current system:
At a Provincial Championship one year (I won't say which Province) I shot on a Saturday and had to be home for Sunday to work. The interim results were delayed on Saturday evening to the point were I had no option but to leave if I wanted to get home that night at all, so I left. On the Monday the final results were posted and due to a simple key stroke error, someone else ended up taking the first place trophy. I couldn't blame anyone for it since I know how difficult it is to even READ some of those score sheets once they've been corrected, rained on, crumpled up, lost, found again, handled by six different people and then input by tired eyes and hands at the end of the day. But it was still a real kick in the nads all the same, and there was nothing that could be done about it under our rule set...which also sucks by the way.

With technology where it is now, this is now a completely avoidable occurrence, and I do think we should collectively start pursuing a more up to date system. It would make it easier on everyone, especially those who repeatedly sacrifice their time, effort and holidays (and in many cases probably their sanity)to put matches on.

Just my thoughts......

R

Excellent comments RELLIOT.

When the palm-based scoring came out SEVERAL YEARS ago, "Black" had tried to initiate the use of this system in Ontario. In fact, "Black" was in contact with the developer through different stages of his progress. Yes, it was expensive, but for most Level 2's it could be feasable if IPSC Ontario would purchase the items needed and provide them for the MD's.

My squad has had a trial version available that we have tried from time to time for fun, although it has a max of 3 shooters because of it's free-to-purchase nature. I was at the Area (7?) match where they used the system, and I was also aware several months in advance that they were intending to use it. I had my doubts as to the abilities of the score-keepers to use an entirely new system without faults, but it all went wonderfully well. As the last person had "signed" his scoresheet at the match, it was just a matter of walking over to the stats area to complete the process. Results in minutes without a flaw or a piece of paper until the posted results for those who wanted to see. You can imagine how much paperwork at an Area Match this would save. It probably saved much more sanity than actual trees!

That being said, I do believe that there should be a better system for entering the scores on the internet. USPSA matches can be downloaded by the Match Directors themselves, I believe. There really is no real reason that we should got through a third-party for online scoring. IF we have a valid current membership list and a current classification system intact, then there is no reason to control the results.

Right now, the most advanced computing that we have for IPSC Ontario is our Online squadding system. This was not created by IPSC Ontario, and is not even managed by IPSC Ontario. Thanks to one of it's members (thanks OMEN), we are gradually creeping into the 21st Century. Albeit kicking and screaming.