Poll: How long should you have to wait for match results?

[ckc123]

When the palm-based scoring came out SEVERAL YEARS ago, "Black" had tried to initiate the use of this system in Ontario. In fact, "Black" was in contact with the developer through different stages of his progress. Yes, it was expensive, but for most Level 2's it could be feasable if IPSC Ontario would purchase the items needed and provide them for the MD's.

My squad has had a trial version available that we have tried from time to time for fun, although it has a max of 3 shooters because of it's free-to-purchase nature. I was at the Area (7?) match where they used the system, and I was also aware several months in advance that they were intending to use it. I had my doubts as to the abilities of the score-keepers to use an entirely new system without faults, but it all went wonderfully well. As the last person had "signed" his scoresheet at the match, it was just a matter of walking over to the stats area to complete the process. Results in minutes without a flaw or a piece of paper until the posted results for those who wanted to see. You can imagine how much paperwork at an Area Match this would save. It probably saved much more sanity than actual trees!

That being said, I do believe that there should be a better system for entering the scores on the internet. USPSA matches can be downloaded by the Match Directors themselves, I believe. There really is no real reason that we should got through a third-party for online scoring. IF we have a valid current membership list and a current classification system intact, then there is no reason to control the results.

Right now, the most advanced computing that we have for IPSC Ontario is our Online squadding system. This was not created by IPSC Ontario, and is not even managed by IPSC Ontario. Thanks to one of it's members (thanks OMEN), we are gradually creeping into the 21st Century. Albeit kicking and screaming.

You guys are going to love what I have planned (and started the prototype last night..). plus guess what .. NO EXTRA COSTS. if you have a PC and any windows mobile device (ipaq, new HTC touch phones etc) then you have all the hardware you need.. (plus you can easily write web/palm interfaces as well, as it's just a front end UI)

Also.. it will be integrated (with help and approval by Omen of course) to download the squads from ipsc-matches.. it will download the current member list and qualificaitons from ipsc ontario(Again with concent from IPSC Ont), and then update the website with the results when completed.. I also have plans for an onsite kiosk signup, and printing of the results as well as real time stage stats as they are done per squad. and don't forget the uploading to the stats shack as well

Plus it can work with MSS so you still have the offical "Scores" done on the offical software..

 

[Quigley]

Right now, the most advanced computing that we have for IPSC Ontario is our Online squadding system. This was not created by IPSC Ontario, and is not even managed by IPSC Ontario.

Yes...that's called pitching in and helping out...you should try it sometime

 

[Madness]

Way to go, this discussion just starts to get on track and you have to start with the shjt slinging, c'mon

 

[relliott]

You guys are going to love what I have planned (and started the prototype last night..). plus guess what .. NO EXTRA COSTS. if you have a PC and any windows mobile device (ipaq, new HTC touch phones etc) then you have all the hardware you need.. (plus you can easily write web/palm interfaces as well, as it's just a front end UI)

Also.. it will be integrated (with help and approval by Omen of course) to download the squads from ipsc-matches.. it will download the current member list and qualificaitons from ipsc ontario(Again with concent from IPSC Ont), and then update the website with the results when completed.. I also have plans for an onsite kiosk signup, and printing of the results as well as real time stage stats as they are done per squad. and don't forget the uploading to the stats shack as well

Plus it can work with MSS so you still have the offical "Scores" done on the offical software..

Thanks for picking this ball up and running with it D. Well done!
Unfortunately I don't have the techno-chops to sort something like this out, so all I can do is make suggestions from the sidelines. Fortunately we have guys like you and Omen out there who can engineer a solution and are willing to do so. This should make life easier for everyone, and better for those who compete fiercely and really need to crunch the numbers while the stages are still fresh in the memory.

Welcome to the 21st century everyone! And happy New Year to you all.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee1/relliott_photos/100_0425.jpg

 

[Madness]

Are those the next gen Bomars? are you sure they fit in the Standard box?

Back to scoring, as long as the final results are generated in Winmss we don't break the rule regardless of how the info gets into the program, so a palm system that generates a file that just gets dropped into the Winmss folder would be the perfect solution. Question is, is it possible to create?

 

[relliott]

Are those the next gen Bomars? are you sure they fit in the Standard box?

Yes, they are "special" Bomars for guys with bad eyes. Not to worry, it won't be a huge advantage.........

 

[ckc123]

Unfortunately I don't have the techno-chops to sort something like this out, so all I can do is make suggestions from the sidelines.

Don't worry Rob.. I'll be bugging you for some User Interface suggestion.. I'm good with code.. not so good on the usability aspect..

 

[Madness]

Special huh?, I was wondering why there was a short bus at the last few matches.

 

[ckc123]

so a palm system that generates a file that just gets dropped into the Winmss folder would be the perfect solution. Question is, is it possible to create?

well.. in theory No.. There is no direct way of importing results into MSS via thier program.. However.. if you get sneaky about it, you can get access to thier MS access database with the right user id and password (don't ask how I got those .

to be honest.. the Palm OS is very limiting.. you only have certain hardware, and it's getting to be less common.. Windows Mobile on the other had is taking off. plus if you do it in .net, then you can have the same back end code create a UI for Web/PDA/Cell/PC etc. plus writing the protocol for the communications is a lot easier in .net (you have to worry less about the physical aspect of the communications).

alot of new phones coming out are windows mobile, so you can just load the App onto it, and use the cell network to transfer the data to the "central PC"
Also.. you get local Wifi on a lot of the devices as well, which you can run completly on battery across all devices in a range with no power. (or bluetooth etc. etc.)

I should have a functional prototype working in about a week to start to show people I've got the MSS interface already working.


The end Goal is to completly reduce all the manual entry and duplicate entries we are doing today (1) online signup 2) MSS 3) classifications etc etc)
thats what will make this system more enticing to use, as this part is costing US the most time right now.

 

[Quigley]

Are those the next gen Bomars? are you sure they fit in the Standard box?

Back to scoring, as long as the final results are generated in Winmss we don't break the rule regardless of how the info gets into the program, so a palm system that generates a file that just gets dropped into the Winmss folder would be the perfect solution. Question is, is it possible to create?

I doubt that dumping multiple files onto the WinMss folder is an option. I'm not expert on how WinMss was developed...but assuming it's mutli tier...all you have to do in add a GUI to the top layer (for inputing into the WinMSS Database) and run it on a mobile device. This assumes that the current architecture allows for multiple data sources (which I assume it does) This would require access to the source code

It's no small job...but it's possable.

 

[ckc123]

This would require access to the source code

It's no small job...but it's possable.

Ah Quigley.. Quigley.. Quigley... ye of little faith.. I make my living reverse engineering other people software (from a legal use perspective).. I'm often integrating vendors software that has little to no documentation on what thier systems do.. I'm figuring out thier own apps for them on a daily basis..

 

[Quigley]

Ah Quigley.. Quigley.. Quigley... ye of little faith.. I make my living reverse engineering other people software (from a legal use perspective).. I'm often integrating vendors software that has little to no documentation on what thier systems do.. I'm figuring out thier own apps for them on a daily basis..

No sense in swimming upstream if we can use a more direct route...

 

[40cal]

Yes...that's called pitching in and helping out...you should try it sometime

Yes, I did try "picking up the ball" several times, but you don't like to play nice!

As a matter of fact, I was one of the people that tried to correct the junk that you call a classification system before it happened. If you REALLY want all the people to know what a screw-up that is, then I would be happy to elaborate in a different topic. You and I had many e-mails over that topic alone, so don't try to say that I haven't tried to make IPSC Ontario a better place.

As for the slamming about what one does........maybe you should come over to my side of town once in a while and see what gets done by whom before you pick up your shovel again. We don't need that type of bashing when there are some people here trying to solve a problem. Just because I don't do or say what you want, doesn't make me the problem.

If you travelled a little more, you might just see what goes on in other places. I don't travel near what some of the posters here do, but I do get to see what goes on in the US at several of the larger matches every year. There is another world out there, and we are not the smartest all the time. There is a multitude of information and knowledge here. Don't keep on raising your stick to beat it into submission.

 

[Quigley]

As a matter of fact, I was one of the people that tried to correct the junk that you call a classification system before it happened. If you REALLY want all the people to know what a screw-up that is, then I would be happy to elaborate in a different topic. You and I had many e-mails over that topic alone, so don't try to say that I haven't tried to make IPSC Ontario a better place.

A little off topic what what the hell...

Yes, you did send me emails. If I recall correctly about 5. Most of them came after the system was implimented. The first one was pretty concise...

Yes, you did express your opinion...a bit too USPSA'ish...but you are entitled to your opinion. About 35 other mindfull soles also gave their opinion. We consolidated that info and sent it out to members for comments...3 times

It was then voted on by our club reps (and the board) Another 25 or so contributers.

I know it's easy to have just one person to whip...but this was not man handled in any way...and several people (not just you) contributed to the process.

Are you suggesting that we should have ignored the input of the 60 or so people that participated...and just went with what you said

I don't think that would be a very fair and open process...

Your humble servant...

 

[relliott]

A little off topic what what the hell...

Yes, you did send me emails. If I recall correctly about 5. Most of them came after the system was implimented. The first one was pretty concise...

Yes, you did express your opinion...a bit too USPSA'ish...but you are entitled to your opinion. About 35 other mindfull soles also gave their opinion. We consolidated that info and sent it out to members for comments...3 times

It was then voted on by our club reps (and the board) Another 25 or so contributers.

I know it's easy to have just one person to whip...but this was not man handled in any way...and several people (not just you) contributed to the process.

Are you suggesting that we should have ignored the input of the 60 or so people that participated...and just went with what you said

I don't think that would be a very fair and open process...

Your humble servant...

Oh God, not ICS again! I just got over the nightmares from the last run on that one.

 

[Madness]

\a bit too USPSA'ish...

as if thats a bad thing?
Doesn't winmss create a data file with the hits and times for a shooter or stage? Like the file used to print out the shooter score verifications

 

[AlexS]

What???

I will take "not enough vounteers for $500 Alex"


Edited to add.........that works on multiple levels!

Ok Storm, then answer the following:
We have more members than all of the rest of Canada combined here in Ontario, right??
Fact.
The rest of the sections in this country manage by large to get it done at the match, right?
(see posts from Hungry Beagle and Walter H.) Ask Freedom Ventures how they get in done out east too.
Fact.
The rest of the world by large gets it done with much smaller numbers.
Fact.
Some guys here get it done. Madness, Black.
Fact.
Now, are you telling me that it's not possible to do that here with our huge numbers as opposed to the other sections, or are you telling me you and others don't find it important enough to find or delegate someone to do it?
What the facts say is that what you and others are doing is because you think that's the way to do it. Not because you can't. You just don't because you've never done it that way.
It's simply time to change your thinking. It's not really that big of a deal, is it?

 

[stormbringer]

Ummmm

Is that supposed to be some sort of inspirational message?? If so you better work on your delivery..........


The only change to my thinking that approach will achieve (now this is only me speaking) is drastically reduced number of matches in Ontario.

 

[redbirddog]

I think that matches should be scored right away and the results should be available right away. I have not had the privilege of seeing the software that scores the matches but when I do, I hope it will keep up or I will revert to my abacas approved or not

 

[stormbringer]

redbirddog............everyone WANTs to have the results right away. That as I understand is not an issue.

The trick is to find a methodology that ensures it...


Oh Alex......I think i have a better answer..

Here it is.............

Ontario members must suck.

They do not pull their weight.

We have an over abundance of primadonas who do not help in sufficient numbers to get the job done...

Now this may in fact be a direct result of Ontario having more members. Perhaps they are all thinking that there are so many members that there will be plenty of help to go around. This then results in insufficient numbers of volunteers to get the job done. Elementary my dear friend.