Poll - IPSC Classic Division (SSD)

[PH Racing]

The problem is the stages HAVE been tailored to mag capacity and that's 10 rounds. How many 9 round speed shoots do we see, how many times do we ALWAYS see 8 or 9 rounds in a port? In every port on a medium or long course? While it's easy to say, "just aim harder" the fact of the matter is you will be more aggressive on an 8 or 9 round string if you know you have a couple of extra shots in the mag For fun at a match, and maybe I'll do this next year at one of ours, set up two simple 6 round speed shoots, both exactly the same, at say 10m and make one Comstock and make the other Virginia count and see what the time difference is. There shouldn't be any, but I bet there is.
With an 8 round gun and a series of 8 round strings at every port, if I fire an extra shot at one port I'm doing slidelock reloads throughout the rest of the course...and no extra round at any of next positions...with a 10 rounder there is no issue.
Now I'm not suggesting "revolver neutral" stages cuz shooting 6 rounds at every position is just as boring as shooting 8 at every position. But when I do stage designs I rarely put more than 2 targets in a port or position and leave lots of options where shooters with any division can choose to reload. If you want to run 10 you can string a couple or more positions together or you can choose to do a reload and have some extras at each position. You may be able to see 8 or 9 shots from one position but there is always the ability and the option to break that up so you don't have to.

 

[StoneHorse]

If you think having a couple fewer rounds in your mag is a huge disadvantage.....

You want "classic"..?

Make it stock, iron sighted .45acp 1911's and leather holsters.

Period.

At my skill level, an extra two rounds does make a difference. Sure, I would like to shoot with more accuracy and at greater speed but at my age, I'm lucky to be able to focus on the front sight most of the time and jog.

I would like to shoot .45 but too many $$$$ for ammo.

 

[PH Racing]

Once upon a time the guns evolved to suit the course of fire, now the course of fire has evolved to suit the gun....

 

[alphamike]

Course design will be key. Look forward to hearing how guys are fairing with their 8 round guns. I will be doing it, and happy to have a division to use my .45. This division is long overdue.

 

[Madness]

shot SS on sunday, should have delared minor for the extra rounds. One extra shot at the start of the stage and I was racking after every reload

 

[Splatter]

.38 Super as a Minor cal ?!? That's just stupid. I agree that 9mm Major was pushing the envelope a little too hard; but .38 Super was designed to go Major, same as .357 Mag, 9x21 and 9x23. Would 9x25 be a forced minor as well?

 

[PH Racing]

Lol....no it wasn't look up the factory spec. for .38 super+p 130 gr bullet at 1200 fps is 156pf, that's minor. It's a fairly stout minor but it stil counts. Load it down a bit and you'll have a soft shooting gun with a case and OAL that was designed to work in the 1911 platform.
9x21 also is not designed for major any more than 9mm Luger was, 9x21 in factory loadings duplicates 9x19. It was produced and sold in countries where military calibers are not allowed to be owned by civilians and was chambered in guns like the Berretta 92f in Italy for civilian ownership. (you could also buy Beretta semi autos like the AR70 in .222 for the same reason) 9x21 was a work around for a law that also was a work around the USPSA rules (which was the only country in IPSC that didn't allow 9mm major) so that we could shoot 9mm based hicap guns like the Springfield P9 in the US matches. As soon as the McCormick and Caspian frames came out and everyone went back to super the 9x21 really faded away, once the 9mm was allowed to loaded to major again in the US (pf dropped to 165) the 9x21 was officially dead, you only see the odd gun out there now chambered for it.

 

[PH Racing]

shot SS on sunday, should have delared minor for the extra rounds. One extra shot at the start of the stage and I was racking after every reload

Lol...told ya so.

 

[chemo]

Just found this on another board. No sources
Can anyone point me a full text? I would like to know if we are going to enforce rules a bit like production div? The only single stack I have is drilled on both sides for thumb rest and scope mount. With those removed, the frame has holes (which would be no go for production)

APPENDIX D? Classic Division

(For evaluation only - expires 31 December 2014)

1. Minimum power factor for Major 170

2. Minimum power factor for Minor 125

3. Minimum bullet weight No

4. Minimum bullet caliber / cartridge case length 9mm (0.354”) / 19mm (0.748”)

5. Minimum bullet caliber for Major 10mm (0.40”), see below

6. Minimum trigger pull (see Appendix E4) No

7. Maximum handgun size Yes, see below

8. Maximum magazine length Yes, see below

9. Maximum ammunition capacity Yes, see below

10. Max. distance of handgun and allied equipment from torso 50mm

11. Rule 5.2.10 / Appendix E2 applies Yes

12. Optical/electronic sights No

13. Compensators, ports, sound and/or flash suppressors

Special conditions:
14. A handgun in its ready condition (see Section 8.1), but unloaded and with an empty magazine
inserted, must fit wholly within the confines of a box which has internal dimensions of 225mm x
150mm x 45 mm (tolerance of +1 mm, -0 mm). Note that all magazines must comply.

15. The handgun is placed inside the box with the barrel parallel to the longest side of the box. Rear
adjustable sights may be slightly depressed during insertion.

16. Handguns must be based on and visibly resemble the classic 1911-genre design. This means a
single-stack, one piece metal frame, and a dust cover (without an accessory rail) which has a
maximum length of 75mm when measured from the leading edge of the dust cover to the rear of
the slide stop pin. Magazine well openings cannot exceed a maximum outside width of 35mm.
Compliance is checked by way of a 35mm wide, and at least 5mm deep, notch carved into the
outside of the box, or by use of a ruler or caliper, as approved by the officiating Range Master.

17 Prohibited modifications are slide lightening cuts, weak hand thumb rests and slide rackers.

18. Permitted modifications are those of a cosmetic nature (e.g. custom grip panels, scrimshaw or
similar surface engravings, checkering or serrations etc.), replacement single or ambidextrous
thumb safeties, and any open sights (which may be embedded into the slide).

19. Magazines accessible to a competitor during a COF must not contain more than 8 rounds (for
Major power factor) or 10 rounds (for Minor power factor) at the Start Signal.

20. 357SIG is also an approved caliber for Major, subject to achieving the applicable

I'm afraid people would call me out on the speed holes in the frame
[youtube]XVV_COOey0E[/youtube]

 

[euxx]

.38 super

Pat, do you realize that by new IPSC rulebook you'll be shooting Minor PF with .38 super?

 

[SVISTI1911]

Just found this on another board. No sources
Can anyone point me a full text? I would like to know if we are going to enforce rules a bit like production div? The only single stack I have is drilled on both sides for thumb rest and scope mount. With those removed, the frame has holes (which would be no go for production)



I'm afraid people would call me out on the speed holes in the frame

You can find the new rules on the IPSC Ontario website. They are the marked up version which include the old rule (which is crossed out) and the new rules. Something similar might be available on the IPSC World site too.

 

[chemo]

You can find the new rules on the IPSC Ontario website. They are the marked up version which include the old rule (which is crossed out) and the new rules. Something similar might be available on the IPSC World site too.

yes thank you
appendix D3

 

[Madness]

Pat, do you realize that by new IPSC rulebook you'll be shooting Minor PF with .38 super?

yup, so he'll have two more rounds over the major shooters

 

[bizman89]

I am not trying to ruffle any feathers, just not sure why we need another division. It seems like it will just water down the divisions we already have. Is it really just the love of the origional 1911? Is it people looking for another division to be more competive in? In my area we are lucky to have 25 or more at a match and then to recognize another new division? I could picture having classic matches set up for 8 round major power factor stages and a division at nationals and level 3, etc.. People could all show up and shoot a classic match and in the other local matches compete as a standard competitor. I am not against it just not sure why we need it. What am I not seeing?

 

[PeteL]

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