Poor man's full length resizer?

kodiakjack

kodiakjack

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So I've recently waded into reloading, due mostly to finding this in an old box of parts.



So far, it's been great. Slow, but a good pace for a beginner, and a guy with a young family who can't get to the range that often anyway. I'm loading .308. I'd add .303 to the list if I could find dies.

The kit will neck size only. That hasn't been an issue yet, but I'm told after a few runs, the bolt will get hard to close due to the shoulder spacing... And a fl resize will be needed then. Is that accurate?

If so, what are my options for fl resizing without investing in a completely different press?

With the kit, there was a machined .308 fl die, no threads or anything. Just looked like a piece of round stock that was machined down. It looks like it was beat to death. I tried resizing a case in it so I could take some measurements. Used a block of wood in the bench vice to push the lubed case in, but the force required was ridiculous, and about 3/4 of the way in the case just buckled and pancaked. Had to pound the case out with a dowel, and that took some real doing. So I don't know what's up with that die, but it's not a part of the kit, and it's beat to hell anyway. Any advice is appreciated.
 
Ganderite said:
The 310 uses special dies. They are a smaller and finer thread than the usual die. The FL 308 die for a 310 exists. I might even have one somewhere.

Look in junk bins at the gun show.
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Are you sure? <Thunder rolls and lighting flashes across the sky as the newby questions the Mighty Ganderite!!>

;-P

I don't see how there could be such a die... there's pretty limited travel in the 310. Wouldn't you need more travel to push a case all the way into an fl die? And wouldn't the simple hinge design not give you enough leverage to force it in there? I see hand presses like the Lee have an offset leverage thing going on, whereas the 310 is just whatever elbow grease you can muster...
 
OK, good point.

There are dies that fit the small diameter of the 310. I think of them as 310 dies. But maybe there used to be a regular press that used these small dies, before the 7/8 ones became the standard.

For sure there are FL dies that fit the 310. But maybe only the Hulk is strong enough to use it....
 
Let me suggest that you look into getting a different set up. That antique was great for its intended purpose which is what you are presently doing but it was very limited.

I started out with the same die but it was set up for the 30-30 Winchester. There is a big difference in the taper and the rim. It loaded some very good cartridges albeit none of them were ever full length resized or even trimmed. I sold the unit with the rifle.

Lee makes a small hand held press that will take full length resizing dies. Likely you can get the press and die easier and cheaper than you can find an appropriate 310 die. Lee dies are very good for the money and turn out some very accurate ammo. Most North American ammo producers use Lee made dies for the products they offer.

One other thing to consider. You likely don't need to full length resize. You just need to re anneal the neck and shoulder of the case and set back the shoulder. Usually the base of the case is fine as long as it's used in the same rifle it came from. It's only when you switch firearms that you run into issues.
 
bearhunter said:
Let me suggest that you look into getting a different set up. That antique was great for its intended purpose which is what you are presently doing but it was very limited.

I started out with the same die but it was set up for the 30-30 Winchester. There is a big difference in the taper and the rim. It loaded some very good cartridges albeit none of them were ever full length resized or even trimmed. I sold the unit with the rifle.

Lee makes a small hand held press that will take full length resizing dies. 1. Likely you can get the press and die easier and cheaper than you can find an appropriate 310 die. Lee dies are very good for the money and turn out some very accurate ammo. Most North American ammo producers use Lee made dies for the products they offer.

One other thing to consider. You likely don't need to full length resize. 2. You just need to re anneal the neck and shoulder of the case and set back the shoulder. Usually the base of the case is fine as long as it's used in the same rifle it came from. It's only when you switch firearms that you run into issues.
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1. Yeah, I've given up on finding a 310 die, but was just wondering if there's a "handyman's special" way of fl resizing. Just getting a certain die, and jury rigging something with the bench.vise or whatever. I don't know. I've heard guys refer to some system that involves hammering? Is there some such system where the round is hammer d in and out of an fl die?

2. Can you provide any direction on where to find info on this process? Something I could do at home?


I should also clarify that I'm reloading for cost and reliability only. I'm no bench shooter, and never will be. As long as the reloads stay close to factory ammo accuracy, I'll be pleased. It's just for hunting, and maintaining my consistency throughout the off season.
 
You can use a vise - or mallet - to drive a lubricated case into a FL die, then use a rod to tap it out. Possible, but really slow.
The 310 tool is a dandy, if neck sizing is all that is needed. Load at the range if you want.
I would suggest you look for a cheap used single stage press, and do your FL sizing with a conventional die. Then use the 310, neck sizing until the shoulder needs to be bumped back.
.303 cases will last longer if neck sized only.
 
If the mouth of the FL die has been damaged(peened in) with a steel hammer, that might explain your difficulty. A tapered steel cutter might return it to usable condition.
 
I have a Lyman manual from the early 1960's. It shows the 310 tool and the "Full Length Hand Resizing Die" as an option. Back then the Tool and basic dies for 1 caliber was $16.50. The optional hand full length die was $3.50 extra.

The instruction on how to use the tool, and especially the hand full length die are very limited. A quote:

"With the individual Hand Resizing Die, press the fired case into the die as far as it will go."

Full stop, end of story. No help in how you get the case back out. I gather that you are expected to drive it out with a steel rod. I rather suspect this was not the fastest or most successful tool they ever made, and while the basic 310 appears to be still offered today, there is no FL hand die.

My thoughts are to just neck resize until you have a problem. At that point you can decide whether to throw the cases away and start with new ones, or buy a press and full length sizing die. And, that point may never come if you only load the brass fired in your gun.

This link suggests .303 British dies were made for the 310 tool.
 
tiriaq said:
You can use a vise - or mallet - to drive a lubricated case into a FL die, then use a rod to tap it out. Possible, but really slow.
The 310 tool is a dandy, if neck sizing is all that is needed. Load at the range if you want.
I would suggest you look for a cheap used single stage press, and do your FL sizing with a conventional die. Then use the 310, neck sizing until the shoulder needs to be bumped back.
.303 cases will last longer if neck sized only.
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I know a fellow that has used a set of reloading dies in a vice with a large NUT with the same 7/8 x 14 thread as most presses are found with. He started out with one of those Lee kits that uses scoops for measures and comes with a small base to hold the case and a punch to remove the primer. It of course has a neck resizing die.

He got to the same point KJ is approaching and being the well heeled but extremely frugal gent he is, went the next cheapest way possible. He bought a decent set of RCBS dies, second hand of course at a gun show and scrounged three 7/8 nuts from where he works. I have never seen him going through the motions but it's pretty easily figured out and his ammo always goes bang and is accurate in his rifle. I would like to know how he keeps his brass length consistent. He also shoots an old but beautifully kept bolt action Mod 70 chambered in 308Win.
 
The lee classic loader uses a mallet and die. It neck sizes only bit is simple if not a tad bit slow and will also require a fl sizing as it only neck sizes as well. In addition to a good scale I started with these and made some fairly accurate ammo, but I agree, a proper press of some sort is the way to go.
LEE%20LOADER.JPG
 
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Worth noting, that there are still a bunch of the old Lyman/Ideal turret presses around which take the same dies as the 310 tools.

That said, unless you find one free or cheap, you are money ahead to spring for a cheap single stage press that takes 'normal' dies.

Cheers
Trev
 
It's great that you're learning and working with the stuff you have. But over the long haul I would not actually BUY anything additional for it unless you can get the pieces for less than the price of a coffee.

If this old tool has whetted your interest that's great. But you've already run into one possible limitation. And I'm sure there will be others along the way. So from here on forward I'd suggest that the best use of your cash would be towards some sort of single stage press that takes the more popular 7/8" dies.
 
Thanks for the replies guys. I'll look into a used single stage press as soon as we move (hoping next year). Our little 800sqft fixer upper doesn't leave me with enough room for any of my current tools, let alone a clean, safe workspace for a fixed reloading setup. Soon though... :)
 
Hitzy said:
Lee hand press and C bench mount press are about as cheap as it gets....
Lee RGB die sets are pretty cheap too.
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This. I paid $30+shipping for my hand press off the EE. Its not the breech lock model though, and If I was to do it again I'd probably drop the $75ish on the kit as it comes with everything you need (lube, ram prime, ect)

kodiakjack said:
Thanks for the replies guys. I'll look into a used single stage press as soon as we move (hoping next year). Our little 800sqft fixer upper doesn't leave me with enough room for any of my current tools, let alone a clean, safe workspace for a fixed reloading setup. Soon though... :)
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Check out the Lee hand press. http://www.budgetshootersupply.ca/frame.cfm?ItemID=650&CategoryID=0

That, plus a set of dies($45), and you are rolling. Its not the fastest, but it has no issues FL sizing my 270 or my buddies 30-06, and its perfect for someone with no room. I am in a similar boat, with nowhere to mount a regular press, so this is pretty much my only option.

I started with a Lee Classic Loader in 303, and that works too, but its slow and you can't full length size with it. I still use it 'cause I haven't bought 303 dies yet. If you go this route, I recommend buying a Lee hand primer too, otherwise you are priming with a hammer and there is something I just dont like about that. (plus the hand prime is soooooooooo much faster. Honestly I recommend the hand prime no matter the setup you get.)

Last, I wouldn't bother looking for a used press. They don't really go for much below a new one, and the cheapest one on the market (Lee Reloader Press) is only $45 (and never on the EE for a deal, at least that I've seen.) Maybe you can find an older used Lyman or RCBS press for a decent price(they retail for like $250), but the lower priced models by Lee just dont seem to come down much in price on the used market vs new.
 
Yeah, I started out with a Lyman convertible press that could be either used as a hand or bench press.

Notable for being even cheaper and crappier than the Lee low end stuff. But the deer and gophers didn't ever find out! :)

Took up as much shelf space as a decent paperback book. Similar space requirements for the Lee Scoops set. A little bulkier box for the Lee Hand Primer, but not much more.
That outfit loaded thousands of .223, and hundreds of .308.

Pretty easy to fit all you might need into a lunch box. Including powder, bullets, and dies for a couple calibers, provided you are willing to skip the bulky die boxes.

Cheers
Trev
 
The latest version of the "Nutcraker" or 310 handles were made of aluminum. They came in 2 sizes, small and large. Lyman still makes and sells these handles, but the assortment of new dies available are mostly for cowboy calibers, ie 38 Spl and 45-70. Lyman has a decent website.



IMO yours looks like the small size, not for 308 Win, sorry. They sell new for 70 U$D, so an ad in the EE will probably get you enough to buy a decent set of 308 Win dies.

Most, but not all dies for the 310 hand tool were of the neck size only persuasion. All bottle rifle calibers were neck size only. They sold a shell resizer, and that is what your die is. If you look on Flea Bay, search "Ideal Shell Resizer" and they should pop up.

I have one in 308, and like yours it is grossly undersized, takes kilo pounds of force to get a case into it. I used an arbor press.



I have a box of them, purchased at a gunshow, while having a temporary lapse of good judgement.

If your handles were the large type, you could probably find a set, I think I have a complete set, but they are pricey if you buy from a collector, much cheaper at gunshows. What you want is a 310 set, 4 to 5 dies, and not the Tru-Line Jr set, 2 dies.

http://www.castpics.net/subsite/Lyman310/default.html

I'd suggest selling or throwing your handles away, collecting these can be expensive and is addictive as well. I started with an old beat up press and 4 dies for $20. I know have close to a 100, 3 presses and 2 handles.





These are ideal for the minimalist, aluminum handles, small light dies and lots of the dies overlap or are suitable for other calibers.

Definitely not "Poor Mans" tools.
 
nitro-express said:
The latest version of the "Nutcraker" or 310 handles were made of aluminum. They came in 2 sizes, small and large. Lyman still makes and sells these handles, but the assortment of new dies available are mostly for cowboy calibers, ie 38 Spl and 45-70. Lyman has a decent website.



IMO yours looks like the small size, not for 308 Win, sorry. They sell new for 70 U$D, so an ad in the EE will probably get you enough to buy a decent set of 308 Win dies.

Most, but not all dies for the 310 hand tool were of the neck size only persuasion. All bottle rifle calibers were neck size only. They sold a shell resizer, and that is what your die is. If you look on Flea Bay, search "Ideal Shell Resizer" and they should pop up.

I have one in 308, and like yours it is grossly undersized, takes kilo pounds of force to get a case into it. I used an arbor press.



I have a box of them, purchased at a gunshow, while having a temporary lapse of good judgement.

If your handles were the large type, you could probably find a set, I think I have a complete set, but they are pricey if you buy from a collector, much cheaper at gunshows. What you want is a 310 set, 4 to 5 dies, and not the Tru-Line Jr set, 2 dies.

http://www.castpics.net/subsite/Lyman310/default.html

I'd suggest selling or throwing your handles away, collecting these can be expensive and is addictive as well. I started with an old beat up press and 4 dies for $20. I know have close to a 100, 3 presses and 2 handles.





These are ideal for the minimalist, aluminum handles, small light dies and lots of the dies overlap or are suitable for other calibers.

Definitely not "Poor Mans" tools.
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Wow. Great info there. Thanks.

I do indeed have the "large" 310. As well as all the dies needed for reloading .308. I've made a few small batches of ammo already with success, but I'm just concerned about the need to fl resize after ??? uses of the brass. (The one in the photo in the op was just ripped from the interwebz as I didn't have a pic handy when posting. My bad. Should've googlefu'd more carefully. )



A few questions for you while I've got you:

1. So what's your process for fl resizing exactly?

2. What's your lube of choice?

3. What's your method of extracting the shells?

4. How often do you fl resize? How many uses of the brass do you get, or what are your tell tale signs that it's time to resize?

5. Do you still need to neck resize after you've fl resized?

All theses questions would pertain to .308 or similar. Thanks so much!!
 
As mentioned, Lyman made a full length pound-em sizer, but they're seldom seen nowadays. Lately I'very been regressing to my 310 tools, like I used in the seventies. Some friends say that I have too much time on my hands now that I'm retired. The .308 case is pretty thick and hard to resize with hand tools. If the cases were military or fired in a sloppy chamber, that would worsen the problem. If you have a friend with a press who could full length resized them first, you would be a mile ahead. If you didn't use belch fire loads and watched your case length and hopefully had a nice round chamber, you would be good for lots of shooting.
As an aside, I usually give away my aluminum handles and just use the older steel ones.
 
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