pop quiz,enfield No4,head spacing?

[Greenhorse six]

Yeah,I know what head space is ,and I looked at the other post about it.

My question is about changing the bolt heads.I just got a No4mk1 and the bolt will not close with a rd in the chamber.what gives,the action works great empty.

The bolt head is a #1,so could this be the trouble?I thinking this may have been a cadit rifle or such for ceremonys, so nobody could load live ammo does this sould about right?

It has a body mk1,but a 2 grove barrel and the bolt is a Stevens-Savage make ,I think,flat end.if its any help.

 

[Claven2]

Tey feedign from the mag - the extractor might not be snapping over the case head. If that doesn't work, either get headspace gauges or take it to a smith for diagnosis.

 

[Greenhorse six]

Yeah, I'am taken it in tomorrow just woundered if this was a possibility,has any one heared of it being done?

The extractor is over the rim,like it should, ejects O.K. just can't close bolt with rd in chamber.

 

[slicknick]

Could it be that the striker spring is rather stiff and the ####-on-closing feature is the source of the problem?

 

[Greenhorse six]

No ,cocks-on-closing O.K. with no rd in chamber.

 

[303carbine]

enfield bolt

Is the bolt head screwed all the way on to the bolt body ???

 

[Greenhorse six]

yes, this is why I'am thinking smaller bolt head.

 

[SteyrSSG]

bolt heads

Check and see if the bolt head is stamped with the same manufacture as the bolt body. I have in the past seen a No1 Faz not work chambering a round but a No1 LB do it without a problem. Perhaps someone in the rifles past tried a little "at home" adjusting and didn't replace the parts properly.

 

[Greenhorse six]

The bolt as near as I can tell is made by stevens-savage,the head I'am not sure.

when I figger out how to post pics I will.

 

[cosmic]

I assume your using factory rounds.... Have you had a good look at the chamber - perhaps there's some debris, separated case?

 

[PerversPépère]

Looks like a separated case wedged in a chamber.
Did you try to insert a sized empty case in the chamber by hand? if there's anything inside, you'll feel it.
PP.

 

[BadgerDog]

Although I'm clueless in gunsmithing and virtually anything mechanical (ask claven2 ..... ), I discovered some interesting stuff last year about Enfield headspacing. While trying to fix a problem on one of ~Angel~'s No.4 Enfields, where the primers on her .303 S&B commercial ammo seemed to be backing out way too much, I found that apparently one can't just go and install using the marked bolt head numbers to correct a headspace problem.

So, out of curiosity I began measuring with a highly accurate digital micrometer, some of the bolt heads mounted on her No.4's

I used the following standards, as per the Enfield Armourer's Manual.:

#0 .620 to .625"
#1 .625 to .630"
#2 .630 to .635"
#3 .635 to .640"

The bolt head marked #0 that had failed a British military .074 "field guage" measured .630, which seems to indicate to me it should be marked at the high end as a #1 or at the low end of being a #2. Also, I have another one marked #1 and it measures .632, which should make it a #2. So, I simply put another loose marked #2 I had in a parts box, that actually measured .064 and it worked fine. I'm not exactly sure why the differences, except perhaps the poorer manufacturing tolerances for the era.

Before I did any of that, again using a standard British military armourer's guage, I checked the firing pin protrusion first as per Enfield Armourer's Manual. It was .044 and the spec called for .040 to .050, so I assumed it was fine.

Here's a great article called Headspace 101 for .303's by Parashooter (click here)http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78341 in the "Technical Articles for Milsurp Collectors and Re-loaders" section of our MKB.

Hope some of this experience helps somebody .......

Regards,
Badger

 

[Greenhorse six]

chamber looks good from what I can see.

its so close to closing,just a hair away.closes O.K. on an empty chamber.

The bolt and mag have the same serial #,the mag is almost shiney,like its been sanded.

 

[Greenhorse six]

thanks Badgerdog,good info.

If the head space is to much =separated cases,if the head space is to tight=?

 

[303carbine]

You didn't answer my question....is the bolt head screwed all the way onto the bolt body ?????????

 

[Claven2]

Is the round a reload? If so, try factory ammo.

 

[Greenhorse six]

I'am an "idiot",reloaded ammo, improperly sized.stupid,stupid...but very much happier now.its not the rifle it was me.

thanks to every one who took the time to help me.

Claven2 you were right on the money.

303carbine ,the answer is yes bolt head screwed all the way onto the body.

when you hear a stampede, think horses not zebras.oi'va.

 

[PerversPépère]

Bad crimping

You probably overcrimped thus bulging the shoulder ever so slightly and that
is just enough to jam a round.
Back-off a half turn or so on the crimping die body then readjust the seater stem with a round fully seated in the die.
It happens frequently with rounds like the 30-30, too.
PP.

 

[woodchopper]

Ah I missed it.....

If your in edmonton I have a set of headspacing gauges

 

[cosmic]

Badgerdog - I ran into the same issue regarding measured lengths. I even found a #1 that was substantially shorter.. perhaps the reason for the variation relates to the way the bolt heads index on the bolt body - some will sit more "proud' at the rear face than others, when the bolt head is in the groove.
A more concise measurement would consider this indexing, rather than simply measuring the front to rear face, as I did.