ported or not ported, that is the question

I already knew that. But you're wrong about that, too.

f:P:

Anyone who claims to be an expert in a field while insulting people who are ACTUALLY experts in said field tend to share a certain quality.....I’m guessing that you dont have many friends and the ones you think you have talk to each other about why you’re still around.....

Since prudence is so important to you, here’s a tip. If you dont want to get shot in the face, stand behind a shooter instead of crying that someone has a ported choke.
 
Yeah, but the majority of shooters won't notice the difference, and if they did, they wouldn't want to use an extended choke at all, no?


True, the majority of shooters won't notice the difference but the majority of shooters haven't tried different weights to see if it makes any difference to their shooting or not.
Some times more muzzle weight is good and sometimes more weight is bad. More muzzle weight often works well on long crossing targets while less weight often works well on close in fast moving targets, the trick is finding the best compromise for the individual.
 
f:P:

Anyone who claims to be an expert in a field while insulting people who are ACTUALLY experts in said field tend to share a certain quality.....I’m guessing that you dont have many friends and the ones you think you have talk to each other about why you’re still around.....

Since prudence is so important to you, here’s a tip. If you dont want to get shot in the face, stand behind a shooter instead of crying that someone has a ported choke.

Well you know what they say about experts:

Ex = has been (as in ex-wife)
Spurt = a drip under pressure.

Frankly, I don't care who said what. Owning a business or being a machinist makes one potentially knowledgeable about running some businesses, or perhaps operating a CNC machine. It doesn't make them experts on everything firearms related. If empirical evidence contradicts them, they're wrong regardless of qualifications.

On more than one occasion, I've seen people get hurt because of ported barrels. There's a second poster in this thread (unknown to me) who has been hit in the face him(her)self. Your misdirection attempts, babbling about experts and the like, don't distract from the facts (unless you're the typical Liberal voter - they're easily distracted with shiny objects and platitudes).

I wish you many glorious days in the field and at the range with your ported barrels and chokes.
 
Evidence = proof......you have provided zero
Opinions = your thoughts.....you provided plenty

Do yourself a favour and stop confusing the two.

Muller has been making chokes for a long time (non of which are ported by the way) and makes some lf the best in the business. Jimmy has done more R&D (“testing” to help with your comprehension) then you can ever possibly imagine. Not only have they tested their own products, they have tested every other choke on the market to determine what works and what doesn't. He and his company have done and seen more pattern tests, shot string tests, slow motion video observations etc...and have completed more metallurgy test then you can image. All in the name of learning so that they can offer a competitive advantage over their competitors....

You are to make us believe that everything that Muller has learned through actual evidence determined in their R&D should play second fiddle to your opinions? I applaud your confidence...but only in a comedic way....
 
Hey James, how do you know if you dont even give it a try. I have an excellent press.....let me take a set of your barrels home and I’ll complete the best porting job you’ve ever seen. If you truly detest the look, I’ll just weld up the holes again....

In all honesty....I agree with you. I dont like the look of ported barrels either....and not just on a SxS, but any barrel..
 
I have some Teague ported chokes that I recently got in trade. I tried out two Light Modified on the pattern board and then compared them to my factory Light Modified. While I didn't count pellets (I know, I know), my casual observation was that I couldn't tell the difference between them. I then shot a round of 5-stand and the only conclusion I could come up with is that the ported chokes sure are a lot dirtier than the non-ported ones (not a very in depth test I know, but it's doubtful I'll ever use the Teagues again).

I also have a bunch of Mullers and while I'm no expert I can say they have never shot loose and stay incredibly clean. They are also extremely lightweight and, to some people, that makes a difference because the Muller Chokes for a Krieghoff have about 2 1/2 inches extra length to them.

To the people who can't understand why anyone would go with aftermarket over factory chokes, ponder this, Krieghoff Titanium chokes are $145.00 US each at the moment, Briley (my personal preference) or Muller are about half (or close to it) of that.
 
While I agree that the porting of choke tubes amounts to a very a small reduction of weight, any change in weight is significant when it's out on the end of your barrels. And I think that Jimmy Muller knows more about choke tubes than most people.

You would think so, but any objective observer would know that adding grams of weight to the end of the barrel(s) and then porting them claiming that this insignificant weight reduction is important is clearly engaged in a marketing exercise. This is the intellectual equivalent of increasing taxes by 5% on everything sold in Canada, then claiming a net benefit to taxpayers because the poorest of the poor will be entitled to a $500 rebate. As PT Barnum correctly stated "Never underestimate the ignorance of the American people".
 
On more than one occasion, I've seen people get hurt because of ported barrels. There's a second poster in this thread (unknown to me) who has been hit in the face him(her)self.

Is there any real evidence that this pellet traveled through the porting in the barrel and was directed into the person's face rather than being (what I believe more likely) a ricochet? Pellets can ricochet off the house, off of targets, and off of multiple other things. Unless that shot was filmed with a high speed camera and you can identify the pellets leaving the porting I think the only evidence that you have is evidence that somebody was hit in the face with a pellet.

Ported barrels have been around a long time and there are lots of people at my club and other clubs I have shot at that use them - if they were such a menace to public safety they would not be sold.
 
Is there any real evidence that this pellet traveled through the porting in the barrel and was directed into the person's face rather than being (what I believe more likely) a ricochet? Pellets can ricochet off the house, off of targets, and off of multiple other things. Unless that shot was filmed with a high speed camera and you can identify the pellets leaving the porting I think the only evidence that you have is evidence that somebody was hit in the face with a pellet.

Ported barrels have been around a long time and there are lots of people at my club and other clubs I have shot at that use them - if they were such a menace to public safety they would not be sold.

I doubt that anyone has done a scientifically controlled study. However, there's plenty of anecdotal evidence of nearby competitors being hit with wayward lead. I've seen it with my own eyes twice. Both times the shot came from a gun with ported barrels. It's still possible that the pellet involved bounced back from the bunker, but this is highly unlikely. The bunker involved is buried in the ground. The top surface is plywood. Flyer pellets don't burrow through the ground, bounce off the back wall of the bunker, and rise back up through the ground with enough energy to wound. Nor do they bounce off a downrange sheet of plywood level with the ground and come back in the opposite direction.

I don't doubt that many of you have not seen something similar. It doesn't happen every day. But it does happen all too often. I suspect that steel is much too hard to be peeled off by barrel/choke ports so, if you only hunt/shoot with steel, you likely won't get sued by the guy beside you.

The so-called benefits of porting aren't clear. Recoil reduction is one of those benefits, but it's so marginal that adding a couple of ounces to the weight of the gun would work better. Muzzle flip reduction is another touted benefit. Again, there is no agreement in any community of shooters that this actually works.

I believe that the debate over the pros and cons of ports is fractured for a good reason - that being because not all ports are created equally. Ports can come through the barrel(s) to the left, the right, up or down, and in any degree thereof. Regardless of the orientation of the ports, they can also be at exact right angles to the bore, or skewed more toward the front or more toward the rear.

It's doubtful that all versions of ports are useless and equally doubtful that all implementations are dangerous. But it's a verifiable fact that at least some of them are unacceptably dangerous and most, if not all, are too loud (especially in the field where most don't wear hearing protection).

If a shooter doesn't give a crap about their hunting partners or their fellow competitors, they will reap what they sow. Those who put gun safety ahead of bravado will avoid ports until it is conclusively demonstrated what, if any, porting methodology is safe.
 
Is there any real evidence that this pellet traveled through the porting in the barrel and was directed into the person's face rather than being (what I believe more likely) a ricochet? Pellets can ricochet off the house, off of targets, and off of multiple other things. Unless that shot was filmed with a high speed camera and you can identify the pellets leaving the porting I think the only evidence that you have is evidence that somebody was hit in the face with a pellet.

Ported barrels have been around a long time and there are lots of people at my club and other clubs I have shot at that use them - if they were such a menace to public safety they would not be sold.

Agree on both points
 
Is there any real evidence that this pellet traveled through the porting in the barrel and was directed into the person's face rather than being (what I believe more likely) a ricochet? Pellets can ricochet off the house, off of targets, and off of multiple other things. Unless that shot was filmed with a high speed camera and you can identify the pellets leaving the porting I think the only evidence that you have is evidence that somebody was hit in the face with a pellet.

Ported barrels have been around a long time and there are lots of people at my club and other clubs I have shot at that use them - if they were such a menace to public safety they would not be sold.

This why I posted the quote below... I think pellets flying backward laterally having exited porting is complete horse shyte...

I'll come back to this thread when the barn needs cleaning...
 
In over 20 years of skeet shooting, I have been struck by pellets twice, neither was from a ported gun. In both cases, the pellets ricocheted nearly 180 degrees after striking the target. I witnessed one instance last year where a pellet drew blood at sporting clays, again, the barrel was not ported, and the the cause was a ricochet.
 
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Jimmy Muller obviously doesn't have a clue. The amount of weight removed by porting chokes is in the order of a few percent of the added weight of the chokes. I don't know a single shooter who cares about the weight of the choke tubes. Without exception, everyone on the firing line at an an international trap event is familiar with the extra loud retort from ports. We all witnessed injuries caused by pellets flying wild because of them. This is why they're outlawed in international competition. This isn't simply my opinion, these are facts.

Are safety glasses are a requirement for international trap?

I don’t think they are.
 
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