Portuguese Contract 1941 K98k F serial questions

A

albertacowboy

CGN Regular
Rating - 100%
6   0   0
Hi all,

I am in the process of acquiring this rifle from its current owner, for whom I found it about 25 years ago. He like perfection, and this is a superb example in super mint condition, as far as I can tell. All waffenamts and serial number stampings seem correct, but there are only 2 inconsistencies that I can see. The bayonet is in good condition, but appears to have a slightly chisel-like tip rather than a needle point. I thought the tip might have been broken off, but the bluing seems original with no bare metal. It has a different serial number. Secondly, the sling appears almost brand new but has no cross-hatching and the texture is a pebble-grain, like a very fine pigskin briefcase. Could this be a postwar East German sling?

I haven't had a chance to accurately survey all numbers and stampings re waffenamt numbers, but the crest and matching serial numbers seem authentic. I am not worried about fakes, since the price is a very low price between old friends, and I will never sell the rifle. I am thrilled to have the chance to eventually buy it, and I am storing it for him now.

I'll remove the sling and check its parts more thoroughly ASAP.

All info welcome.
 
If the bayonet is not matching to the rifle, it's case closed on that front, but I wouldn't be so quick to pass the sling off as being post war. A number of original slings found on the Portuguese contract rifles seem to lack the typical crosshatching which is found on most German slings. So, there is a possibility that the sling *could* be correct. However, until you purchase the rifle and post photographs, we won't be able to give you anymore information.

Chris

EDIT: Here is a correct Portuguese contract sling. The image has been borrowed from the k98k forum (it is not my own).

 
Last edited:
I bought 6 of the unfired, unissued Portuguese m/937, ( K98s ),when they became available. These were from the 1941 contract.

There were two Portuguese contracts, one in 1937 and another in 1941.

Some of the early contract were issued to the German army during the Munich crises and then sent to Portugal after the crisis passed. Chamberlain and his piece of paper..

The ones I bought had matching bayonets, but I cannot remember if they came with slings, but I think they did.

The bayonets were the standard K98 bayonet with the point.

http://worldbayonets.com/Bayonet_Identification_Guide/Portugal/Portugal2.html

Allan Lever was selling 800 round crates of Portuguese 8x57mm, at the time.
 
Last edited:
Some were sold with slings and matching bayonets.

As for their use, some were used by the German army, certainly on the eastern front as one can occasionally find a RC K98k with a Port crest.
 
student of history said:
If the bayonet is not matching to the rifle, it's case closed on that front, but I wouldn't be so quick to pass the sling off as being post war. A number of original slings found on the Portuguese contract rifles seem to lack the typical crosshatching which is found on most German slings. So, there is a possibility that the sling *could* be correct. However, until you purchase the rifle and post photographs, we won't be able to give you anymore information.

Chris

EDIT: Here is a correct Portuguese contract sling. The image has been borrowed from the k98k forum (it is not my own).

Click to expand...

Yes this is the sling I've observed on rifles sold in Australia.
 
This sling is identical to the one on the rifle in question, as is the colour of the walnut stock. The sling buckle is one of the unmarked variety, and I can find no markings on the sling thus far. The sling is dry and has some wear/cracks at the point where it bends around the rear barrel band at the front of the rifle, so I'm going to treat it with some of the cream I use for my saddle here in Edmonton. Also, the left side of the stock has no stamped Port crest, even faintly, although all the Waffenamts and sn stamps on the stock are correct. It is an interesting piece.

I like to use a sling when I shoot, so if the original is far gone re the cracks, does anyone have a suggestion regarding a really good repro sling?

Many thanks!
 
No wonder the Portugese are broke! Champagne tastes on a 'bottle of beer' expense account.
 
Portuguese learned in the 1800's that bargain basement "deals" on firearms got their soldiers killed.
British companies sold them rejected rifles they could not sell to British military.
 
diopter said:
Portuguese learned in the 1800's that bargain basement "deals" on firearms got their soldiers killed.
British companies sold them rejected rifles they could not sell to British military.
Click to expand...
Why does that not surprise me? Oh well....there's a whole lot of 'pay back' coming to the Brits after Brexit...they will likely vote labour because May is an arrogant pushy bxtch...and the poor labour party bastards havent a foggy clue what to do after Brexit....it will be interesting to watch. The Brits have pretty much sold everything to foreigners already..water, rail etc..not much left. Just like Ontario! SORRY for that diversion. The Portugese Mauser rifles are very fine and wonderful to look at.
 
Ok, he answered:

Sorry for the late answer, but you got me in the middle of my annual migration to the Azores.
About your question, that I recall and being far from my information sources, there was a rejection of some lots of Snider conversions made by BSA in the 1840's. The contract was resumed with a Belgian manufacturer - Malherbe of his name.
The authority about this matters is Jaime Regalado and there might be some things online about this matters.
When back in Canada I can provide you with a copy of one of his Works on this matters.
Viriatus - Miniaturas e Figurinos Militares
Viriatus - Miniaturas e Figurinos Militares
http://www.portugalweb.net/historia/viriatus/Percussao_01.asp.htm
Viriatus - Miniaturas e Figurinos Militares
These aresome links to Works of Jaime Regalado on Portuguese armament and its problems.
Best greetings
 
The 1840s date is wrong for both Snider and the 1853 Enfield that some Sniders were converted from.

The conversion of 1853 Enfields to Sniders apparently started in 1866.

The Mk III production apparently started in 1869.

From; http://www.britishempire.co.uk/forces/armyarmaments/rifles/sniderhistory.htm

By 1868 the supply of serviceable Enfields suitable for conversion to breechloading had begun to reach a dangerously low level. By the end of that year the manufacture of new Sniders, as opposed to conversions, had begun, the change being notified in the List of Changes of 13 January 1869. The only obvious, external, differ-ence in appearance in these new weapons was the incorporation of a much safer locking device, of a type originally produced by Enfleld In February 1867, on the breechblock. A steel bolt .375in in diameter protruded .125in from the rear of the breechblock and fitted into a socket at the back of the shoe, being kept in place by a spring. Pressure on a catch incorporated into the thumbpiece withdrew this bolt into the block and thus allowed the breech to be opened in the normal way. The lower side of the bolt was slanted almost down to the level of the rear face of the block, so that it did not catch on the rear edge of the shoe and thus prevent the breech from being snapped closed. In the new arms, the nose of the hammer was made flat. In the converted weapons, the recess in the nose had tended to lock over the nipple and thus help to hold the breech-block closed, but with the new safety bolt this was no longer necessary.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom