Possible Sticky, Ammo shipped within Canada

[cody c]

Edit: this post is relevant to couriers other than Canada post who no longer ships ammunition.

PSA:

I ordered some ammo from a shop out of Vancouver recently, they were a bit hesitant to put in the mail as Canada post has decided to no longer ship ammo. I talked to Purolator, they were kind of in the dark about what was needed or if it was allowed. I then contacted transport Canada on the phone, the lady at the other side of the phone was very helpful and supportive, as per the phone call she indicated that under 30kg combined was fine without any TDG labels and needed to be shipped by ground only. So my box of 20 shells was not an issue, but that it did need to be packaged well enough that if the package took a fall from 2 meters or higher the packaging would safely contain the ammunition within the packaging and nothing would fall out and be exposed. There does not seem to be any test procedure required to establish this. The below info is relative to both a small or large quantity of ammunition, but I'm talking about small quantities for this PSA

For those who are trying to ship ammo and have questions about the current legalities on the matter, please review the email as received, I will hide the agents name out of respect but feel free to PM me for the contact info:


Good afternoon Cody,


It was great speaking with you this afternoon.


In regards to your telephone inquiry re: shipping a box of ammunition (UN0012), the TDG Regulations state that you can ship the dangerous goods by ground in accordance to subsections 1.17(2) to (4) if all the requirements are met. Although you do not require a shipping document or UN0012 label, TDGR 1.17(4) states that the outer packaging must include the words “Overpack” and the limited quantity marking as shown in TDGR 1.17(5).


In order to determine this, you must first look up UN0012 in Schedule 1 of the TDGR:


UN0012 Cartridges for Weapons, Inert Projectile is subject to Special Provisions 125. If you look this up in Schedule 2 of the TDGR you get the information below:

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-2001-286/page-32.html#h-1230891



125 These dangerous goods may be handled, offered for transport or transported in accordance with subsections 1.17(2) to (4) of Part 1 (Coming into Force, Repeal, Interpretation, General Provisions and Special Cases) on a road vehicle, a railway vehicle or a vessel on a domestic voyage if
o (a) the dangerous goods are classified and authorized in accordance with the Explosives Regulations, 2013;

o (b) the dangerous goods are contained in inner means of containment that are placed in a strong outer means of containment designed, constructed, filled, closed, secured and maintained so that under normal conditions of transport, including handling, there will be no accidental release of the dangerous goods that could endanger public safety;

o (c) each inner means of containment has a gross mass less than or equal to 5 kg;

o (d) the outer means of containment has a gross mass less than or equal to 30 kg; and

o (e) the outermeans of containment, as presented for transport, is capable of passing a test in accordance with Test Series 6(d) of Part I of the Manual of Tests and Criteria.

UN0012, UN0014, UN0055

Special Provision 125 states you may transport under subsection 1.17(2) to (4) if the a-e are met. Subsection 1.17(2) to (4) states:

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-2001-286/page-3.html#docCont



Limited Quantities Exemption

1.17
(2) Part 3 (Documentation), Part 4 (Dangerous Goods Safety Marks), Part 5 (Means of Containment), Part 6 (Training), Part 7 (Emergency Response Assistance Plan) and Part 8 (Reporting Requirements) do not apply to the handling, offering for transport or transporting of limited quantities of dangerous goods on a road vehicle, a railway vehicle or a vessel on a domestic voyage if each means of containment is legibly and durably marked on one side, other than a side on which it is intended to rest or to be stacked during transport, with the mark illustrated in subsection (5).
(3) When a limited quantity of dangerous goods is in a means of containment that is inside another means of containment, the inner means of containment is not required to be marked if
o (a) the gross mass of the outer means of containment is less than or equal to 30 kg;

o (b) the outer means of containment is not intended to be opened during transport; and

o (c) the outer means of containment is legibly and visibly marked, on a contrasting background, with the mark illustrated in subsection (5).

(4) When a limited quantity of dangerous goods is in a means of containment that is inside an overpack, the following information must be displayed on the overpack unless the marks on the small means of containment are visible through the overpack:
o (a) the word “Overpack” or “Suremballage” or ; and

o (b) the mark illustrated in subsection (5), legibly and visibly marked on a contrasting background.

(5) The mark is a square on point, and the line forming the square on point must be at least 2 mm wide. The top and bottom portions must be black and the central portion must be white or a contrasting colour. Each side of the mark must be at least 100 mm long. The letter “Y” may be displayed in the centre of the mark if the limited quantity is in compliance with the ICAO Technical Instructions. If the size of the means of containment so requires, the length of each side may be reduced to not less than 50 mm, provided that the mark remains clearly visible.
Black square on point with a white centered horizontal band.



I hope this information helps you! Feel free to contact me if you have any further questions or require clarification.



Regards,



G### B###XX

Dangerous Goods Inspector | Inspecteur-Marchandises Dangereuses
Transport Canada | Transports Canada
Government of Canada | Gouvernement du Canada
Pacific Region | Région du Pacifique
Cell: 236-###-###X
g###.b###XX@tc.gc.ca
Routing symbol: TSD-SUR



My suggestion for dealing with retailers who are hesitant is to forward the attached info above if they have questions, and if they want to verify contact the above entity.

Moderators: feel free to use as a sticky, copy and paste into a sticky, or edit title if needed, or leave the thread for folks to dig up in a search.

Regards,

Cody

 

[73582]

Hey Cody, who ended up being the carrier for your ammo? And assume that all was smooth as silk?

 

[cody c]

Hey Cody, who ended up being the carrier for your ammo? And assume that all was smooth as silk?

Hey, so I think the plan was to use purolator or fedex, but they ended up just shipping via UPS. Was on my door step when I got home from work a few days after UPS picked up, no issues.

 

[Buck1950]

Good info, BUT the title is Mis-leading - ie AMMO is NOT ALLOWED via CP so should not be named as "...By Mail...".

 

[FatCatsDad]

Doesn't matter what this person said
Canada Post website clearly states you can't ship ammo with them.
Cut, end of story.

If tomorrow Canada Post declares you are not allowed to ship Frying Pans, then your not allowed to ship frying pans.

 

[tiriaq]

Cody - what you have posted has nothing to do with Canada Post. Please edit your title.

 

[cody c]

Good info, BUT the title is Mis-leading - ie AMMO is NOT ALLOWED via CP so should not be named as "...By Mail...".

Cody - what you have posted has nothing to do with Canada Post. Please edit your title.

Man, this is why people are hesitant to support the community. Ya take a minute to write up a PSA and people are jumping all over you "you said the wrong term, fix it fix it fix it." I edited it so you can both be happy, but it said in the first sentence canada post will not ship. Mail, courier, shipper, whatever. I'm on a few different online forums, this has probably the least supportive and generally overly dramatic communities of them all, a great place to not stick your neck out generally.

 

[IanON]

Man, this is why people are hesitant to support the community. Ya take a minute to write up a PSA and people are jumping all over you "you said the wrong term, fix it fix it fix it." I edited it so you can both be happy, but it said in the first sentence canada post will not ship. Mail, courier, shipper, whatever. I'm on a few different online forums, this has probably the least supportive and generally overly dramatic communities of them all, a great place to not stick your neck out generally.

You deserve a name in PINK for your insolence!

PINK! PINK! PINK! PINK!

 

[Buck1950]

"a great place to not stick your neck out generally. " Geez, I wonder where you should stick it ??

 

[FatCatsDad]

After all your research did you compile a list of couriers that will ship ammunition for the average Joe that doesn't have a Business account ?

Purolator is one, under provision 125, but expensive as dangerous goods must be declared and boxes marked properly (UN00012) and with the diamond box

I've shipped plenty with Purolator.

Fed Ex does not unless your a business and you contact your account executive to become an approved hazardous materials shipper.

 

[FatCatsDad]

Your PSA doesn't mean shi.t without a list of couriers that will ship.
You've just quoted the rules that the government has.
We need the rules the couriers have.

Man, this is why people are hesitant to support the community. Ya take a minute to write up a PSA and people are jumping all over you "you said the wrong term, fix it fix it fix it." I edited it so you can both be happy, but it said in the first sentence canada post will not ship. Mail, courier, shipper, whatever. I'm on a few different online forums, this has probably the least supportive and generally overly dramatic communities of them all, a great place to not stick your neck out generally.

 

[thegazelle]

Man, this is why people are hesitant to support the community. Ya take a minute to write up a PSA and people are jumping all over you "you said the wrong term, fix it fix it fix it." I edited it so you can both be happy, but it said in the first sentence canada post will not ship. Mail, courier, shipper, whatever. I'm on a few different online forums, this has probably the least supportive and generally overly dramatic communities of them all, a great place to not stick your neck out generally.

I think it's not just merely using the wrong term; that is, that it is a semantics issue. Unfortunately there are a few factors at play here, one being that many people whether we like it or not, don't read entire threads through in great detail but focus on the title and (unfortunately) formulate opinions based on the same. We saw this recently in another thread where the title was about some firearms retail store in which the owners previously donated to the Liberal Party and it was such and such donation in 2016, but what it did not mention is that this was the previous owner, not the existing owner, who proceeded to issue a statement on that to differentiate that it was a different owner (but it turns out he also had a donation later to the LPC, but again it would take reading through the entire thread to see that - many people don't read through multiple pages of comments.

Also, this issue of "who ships ammo" and "how ammo is shipped" comes up quite a bit in the general discussions sub-forum. Which to me indicates there is some confusion for how ammo can get shipped. Combine the two and I can see how a casual reader of the site will just observe the title and presume that ammo can be mailed. Perhaps it is just a semantic distinction, but as we have seen through the playbook of the Liberals, terminology can be used to re-define things, mislead, evade, etc. Certainly I am not suggesting that is what is happening here, but moreso just a clarification of what was intended. Even then, some casual readers may not read through all the details to understand every single nuance.

I don't think you can conclude that somehow that the community is being overly dramatic. Unfortunately as it stands, much of the existing firearms legislation can be a muddy and ambiguous. Hence, when trying to explain something it is incumbent on all of us to ensure that what is said cannot be misconstrued or misunderstood. We already have enough of that from the government's deliberate MO to mislead.