Possible WW1 - WWII Colt, Luger and S&W values (Photos Added)

R

Radar

CGN Regular
Rating - 100%
168   0   0
Location
Left Coast
Looking for value of the following

Luger 1918 DWM, very good condition, all matching serial numbers except mag. Serial number is two digit and the letter 'a'. I removed the grips prior to cleaning as did not want them to get oil soaked
021.jpg


Colt 1911 very good condition with the exception that the barrel is pitted inside on one side. No mags. Serial number is C 12###. I have had two people who are knowledgable with Colt 1911 look at this one and both place it at 97-98% range. All the proof and assembler markings are consistant with the serial number. There does not appear to be any holster wear and the cut on the grips is clean and crisp
002.jpg


Smith and Wesson .455 I would have been able to say it looks new and possibly unfired (will have a gun smith confirm this). The only bad, or good thing about this revolver is that it is inscribed (initials and family name" and "138th BATT" on the right side above the grips.
014.jpg


I have already started to Google these and looking for additional info
 
Last edited:
Detailed pics with the descriptions with each would help set values.

On the Colt 1911 commercial the barrels were not serial numbered. But someone with knowledge of these things could tell you whether the barrel with it is correct or not upon examination. As well as the other small parts on it. 'Course it might cost you a coffee. ;)

2007-10-27_091302_1aCoffee.gif
 
Last edited:
I agree that good-quality pictures would be preferable ....


Colt:

The C-prefix indicates a commercial-production pistol (differentiating it from the pistols then being produced for the U.S. Government). In fact, the "correct" designation for such commercial-production pistols is actually "Government Model" rather than "Model 1911", since the latter term was the U.S. military designation ..... and thus is applicable only to the U.S. military pistols, strictly speaking. (Having said that, "1911" is commonly used to denote both versions.)

From the serial number, your pistol would be 1914-production (the commercial serial number range that year was C5400 through C16599) and thus could very well be one of 5,000 such pistols purchased by the Canadian Government that year (chambered in .45ACP rather than .455Auto as with similar pistols acquired by Britain) to equip the First Contingent of the Canadian Expeditionary Force. As I understand it, no-one has published a definitive list of the serial numbers of the Canadian-purchase pistols, but all of them were 1914 commercial production.

If you are interested, it is possible to get a "Factory Letter" from Colt (albeit at a cost of US$100.00) that should confirm for sure if this is one of the Canadian-purchase pistols -
http://www.coltsmfg.com/cmci/historical.asp
Generally speaking, such a letter will enhance the value of the firearm by at least the cost of the letter. It is unfortunate that your pistol is lacking its original magazine (which would have been the early "two-tone" version with small lanyard loop such as shown in my first image below) since that lack will detract substantially from the value - and such magazines are relatively rare.

Here are a couple of pictures of my own 1914 Canadian-purchase Colt Government Model, and the Archive Letter I got on it - (click thumbnails to enlarge ....)

(H.W. Brown was the Purchasing Agent of the Dept. of Militia & Defence for these pistols.)

Smith & Wesson:

Based on your description and the engraving on it, I would say that this revolver is very likely one of 14,500 such revolvers purchased by Canada in 1915, 1916 and 1917. I have just posted some information on these revolvers, with a photo of my own example and the Factory Letter I got from S&W, elsewhere so, rather than reproduce it here, follow this link:
http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/topic/8455

For a collectible military handgun, I'd say that the inscription on your S&W revolver is most decidedly a GOOD thing! As you may be aware, during WWI officers were still expected to provide all of their own uniforms and other kit (including weapons) at personal expense, and such revolvers were accordingly not "issued" - in the case of Canadian officers, the majority of them purchased their handguns from the Canadian Government, from the stocks of Colt pistols and S&W revolvers acquired by the Dept. of Militia & Defence. It should be possible to determine from the name and Battalion number engraved on your revolver exactly who the fellow was, using information readily available from Library & Archives Canada, and then to order a copy of his entire Canadian Expeditionary Force personnel file. I have done this with my Colt Government Model Pistol and a 1916-dated .455 Mark VI Webley revolver - the Colt was owned by Maj. William Arthur Mitchell, Canadian Army Service Corps, and the Webley by Lt. Samuel William Seago (and so engraved on the backstrap) -


(If you provide the initials and name on your revolver, I will be glad to help put you on the right track on this ....)
 
Last edited:
GrantR - I'm sure 'Radar' will post pics in due course but I did see this C 12,### Colt government model in person yesterday. I would venture to say it is the nicest example of a commercial Colt government model I have ever seen. Think of the condition of yours but with no visible wear to even the sharp edges. Yes, it is that nice...... :eek:

And the S&W Handejector .455 is pretty spectacular condition as well.

2007-10-27_091302_1aCoffee.gif
 
Last edited:
Yup !! We need pictures....

Luger P08 values:

First off it's a 12-6 class pistol so right there you have fewer buyers & a diminished value. Nice 12-6 Lugers usually run around the $750.00 mark more or less. Some factors may bring it up, I'm thinking of special markings or accessories, or down with something like a frosted bore. Main thing is that it has to be original !!

On the 1918 DWM specifically: there were 118 000 of these made and the fit & finish is or lesser quality than previous DWM's produced War time P08s (best ones are probably 1915s). It was War's end & quality suffered....Your pistol should have a rust blued finish with some small parts ``gold colored`` (which is called ``straw finish``) Wood bottom with nickel rolled tube is the correct magazine.

I hope this helps a little.....
Mk
 
You never stated whether your 1918 was an artillery model or the short barrel Po8 variation. Since you are on the left coast as opposed to the maritimes bring this luger to the upcoming HACS show in March in Chilliwack and I can take a look for you, will have some lugers on my tables so you can track me down, ask for Jim Fetterly.
 
I am in the process of haveing some "proper" photographs taken of these and will hopefully get a chance to post them tomorrow.

NAA did get a chance to view these firearms and can attest to their condition.
 
My Canadian commercial Colt is also dated 1914 and originally came with a 1914 Mills holster which I parted with for a fair chunk of change a while ago. The magazine seems proper but the dual tone is not clearly visible or not there.

I know it is a Canadian contract wonder if the letter is worth $100 USD?
 
15567 said:
My Canadian commercial Colt is also dated 1914 and originally came with a 1914 Mills holster which I parted with for a fair chunk of change a while ago. The magazine seems proper but the dual tone is not clearly visible or not there.

I know it is a Canadian contract wonder if the letter is worth $100 USD?
Click to expand...

Why on earth would you seperate the original holster that came with it? :eek:

On the factory letter, it is only worth $100USD if it is worth it to you to gain a little more information on your pistol to give it some historical relevance. As people say you tack on the cost of the letter onto the overall value of the said pistol & recoup it later if you ever sell it.

2007-10-27_091302_1aCoffee.gif
 
NAA said:
Why on earth would you seperate the original holster that came with it? :eek:

On the factory letter, it is only worth $100USD if it is worth it to you to gain a little more information on your pistol to give it some historical relevance. As people say you tack on the cost of the letter onto the overall value of the said pistol & recoup it later if you ever sell it.

2007-10-27_091302_1aCoffee.gif
Click to expand...

Sometimes you have to sell certain things, and I am willing to sell the pistol as well.
 
Short of such a 1914-production commercial Colt pistol bearing the appropriate C-broadarrow stamps and having a fairly irrefutable documented history of Canadian military service in WWI, there is likely no way to "know" that it is one of the 5,000 purchased that year by the Canadian Government except by means of a Colt Archives letter ....

Many (if not most) of these pistols never received any such Government ownership marks because the Dept. of Militia & Defence simply served as a "middleman" and sold them to officers. It would have made no sense to mark them as government property and then immediately have to "cancel" those marks when the pistol was sold. Also, an appeal during WWII for Canadians to donate or sell suitable handguns for the war effort resulted in acquisition of quite a few privately-owned .45ACP Government Model/Model 1911 Colt pistols being acquired at that time, which then received C-broadarrow markings despite not having been part of the 1914 Government purchase.
 
Having fun with Photobuckets which seems to limit the photo's I can add. So just one photo of each and if you would like more, send me an e-mail address.
 
Gorgeous handguns!

It would definitely appear that the original owner of the S&W Hand Ejector was Lieutenant Wilfred Joseph Godden.
Here is the relevant link in the Library & Archives Canada "Soldiers of the First World War" database -when you get there,
note the "Reference" information, and follow the link "How to consult a file on-site or order a copy of the complete file" ......

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/cef/001042-119.01-e.php?&id_nbr=416730&interval=20&&PHPSESSID=22seqsj5d843i8kjlgogfgam76

Godden.gif
 
Your luger although pretty nice suffers the same value as most phrohibs in todays market which is off at the time bieng, I believe you would be lucky to obtain 750 with mag. The luger is a Po8 variation , had it been an LPo8 then worth more dollars.

The low serial number does not have a bearing on the value as military lugers were serialed in batches of 10,000 then repeating the same numerals again only changing the letter suffix that you see on the frame front below serial number.

Earlier pre WW#1 military unit marked lugers command higher dollars to unit mark collectors.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom