x2 for sure. When I have written a review I report on accuracy at 100 meters as (a) it is the commonest standard and (b) it speaks more to the rifle than the shooter/ammo/weather. When working an ammo load I usually practice at 200m as that distance usually shows up ammo weaknesses better than 100 does.
Post your M14 accuracy
- Thread starter Onagoth
- Start date
x2 for sure. When I have written a review I report on accuracy at 100 meters as (a) it is the commonest standard and (b) it speaks more to the rifle than the shooter/ammo/weather. When working an ammo load I usually practice at 200m as that distance usually shows up ammo weaknesses better than 100 does.
As I've posted many many times, the M14 is INCREDIBLY sensitive to ammo variations. I've seen the same M14 shoot sub-moa with one brand of FACTORY ammo, and 5" with a different brand.
Here are some 100 yd groups from my last range session, with my Rem R25/ AR 10,
and a basically new [ 40 rds fired ] out of the box M14 Norinco.
The Norc M14 was in a USGI fiberglass stock,
with a bipod,
IRON SIGHTS,
and a really sh!tty/Gritty trigger.
It shot the two groups on the BLACK targets, in the right of the pic.
The top BLACK target, 2 1/2" group [ 4/5 into 1 1/8" ] was shot with Federal 168 HPBT Match ammo,
and with that gritty trigger, I suspect the flier was mine, not the rifle.
The lower BLACK target, 2 1/8" group, was shot with 7.62 NATO Hirtenberger BALL.
Just for comparison,
in my 15X scoped Rem 25 / AR 10, with a 2 1/2 lb JARD trigger, and a bipod.
The AR 10 had a best group that day of 11/16" with Hornady 168 gr HPBT ammo,
3/4" with Federal 168 GR HPBT,
7/8" with OLD Win 200 Gr Silvertip SP,
1 1/4" with OLD Dominion 110 Gr SP,
[ not shown ]
and the Hirt 7.62 NATO spec BALL ammo shot into 3".
Good enough for the first time at the range?
With the leasst expensive modern AR 10 clone available?
While learning to softly "caress" the 2 1/2 lb JARD trigger?
With FACTORY ammo ...
some of it 20 years old??
The M14,
like most of my M14s do,
had an industrial accident involving ... MR CHOP SAW.
The M14 now wears an 18 3/4" barrel [ superbly chopped and threaded by Dlask ],
a Dlask clone of the PWS comp,
a different POLYTECH bolt,
properly lapped in for full bearing and .0015" thou over .308 GO head space,
and is waiting for my NEW Garand trigger and hammer to arive from Italy.
I've also mounted one of our NEW prototype M14 scope mounts, and a Bushnell Scopechief VI with BDC.
It will be interesting to see what the 14 will do after all these mods???
So, the M14 now costs about 1/2 what I paid for the REM R25/ AR 10.
And the M14 is shorter, lighter, and NOT RESTRICTED!!!!
For an ACCURATE semi auto battle rifle,
my experience with about three dozen AR 10s,
and well over 100 M14s,
has convinced me that the AR 10 is a [on average ] more CONSISTENTLY ACCURATE platform.
BUT,
at half the price, the M14 [ properly modded ] is still my favorite go to gun for the trunk of the car, for "practical " shooting, and for hunting.
And if I want to run and gun, at a Rifle match which focuses mostly on CQB scenarios,
wellll,
my 10.5" LMT AR 15 with the doubled up 10 rd LAR mags is the game machine of choice.
just one man's opinions,
and opinions you get for free on the internet are often worth much less thanyou paid for them,
YPMMV
LAZ 1
[;{)
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I scoped my otherwise stock m-305 this week and today I finally got to shoot it properly with the scope on. The scope is a 1,5-6x42mm Nikon Monarch.
I'm not a world class shot but I'm not crappy either. I had very good support and I don't think I was the major cause of my rather dissappointing groups.
First I shot some german surplus. Groups were crap, in the future I don't think that ammo will be used for much else than reload drills and experimenting with bump-fire... Anyways the groups were 4.5 inches or smaller. Might've gotten a 1.5-incher but in general the spread was simply unacceptable.
I then moved on to what most swedes consider standard practice/target ammo; (with very nice brass for reloading) Norma Jaktmatch and the groups were better but I still doubt wether or not I'd feel comfortable taking this gun hunting.
I shot four 3-shot groups before I ran out of jaktmatch. Botched up with marking out my old hits so one of the groups I had to discard.
first group: 32mm (1.28")
second group:75mm(3")
third group: 55mm(2.2")
I did some measuring and if I had shot them all at the same target the group size would've been 82mm(3.28").
I rarely if ever shoot at greater distances than 100 meters. Still, I'd like to get this gun to consistently shoot 2.5MOA. Over the upcoming months I'm gonna try some of the textbook mods, propably in the following order: spring guide, stock, gas system shimming/welding.
Looking for a nice stock, preferably wood; laminated or walnut/similar. Will appreciate tips via PM
I'm not a world class shot but I'm not crappy either. I had very good support and I don't think I was the major cause of my rather dissappointing groups.
First I shot some german surplus. Groups were crap, in the future I don't think that ammo will be used for much else than reload drills and experimenting with bump-fire... Anyways the groups were 4.5 inches or smaller. Might've gotten a 1.5-incher but in general the spread was simply unacceptable.
I then moved on to what most swedes consider standard practice/target ammo; (with very nice brass for reloading) Norma Jaktmatch and the groups were better but I still doubt wether or not I'd feel comfortable taking this gun hunting.
I shot four 3-shot groups before I ran out of jaktmatch. Botched up with marking out my old hits so one of the groups I had to discard.
first group: 32mm (1.28")
second group:75mm(3")
third group: 55mm(2.2")
I did some measuring and if I had shot them all at the same target the group size would've been 82mm(3.28").
I rarely if ever shoot at greater distances than 100 meters. Still, I'd like to get this gun to consistently shoot 2.5MOA. Over the upcoming months I'm gonna try some of the textbook mods, propably in the following order: spring guide, stock, gas system shimming/welding.
Looking for a nice stock, preferably wood; laminated or walnut/similar. Will appreciate tips via PM
Try federal blue box 150 grain soft points. They seem to produce the best groups of any ammo I've tried. I get 1.5" 5 shot groups at 100 yards. Some of the surplus ammo is just dreadful. 5" groups seem to be the norm. I even tried swapping the bullets out for better quality bullets and they still shot aweful. Must be the cartridges themselves or the powder load.
That's right. Power Shok is the proper name. Hopefully you can get it for $20 a box, more or less.
Like Grizz said,
I've seen several M14s that really liked the cheap blue box Fed power shock 150 gr ammo.
ON AVERAGE, over several recent M14s tested, the Fed blue Box 150 gr power shock was the winner over several types of 7.62 BALL ammo and other brands of cheap .308 SP..
Unfortunately for me, my personal M14 does NOT like the fed blue box stuff.
M14s are very sensitive to ammo variations, and they can have dramatic individual likes and dislikes.
Which is why i keep saying over and over again,
YPMMV!!!
PS: just to keep things in perspective when it comes to "accurising" an M14,
the groups I posted above [ 2 1/2" group with 4/5 into 1 1/8" ] with Federal 168 HPBT Match & 2 1/8" group, with 7.62 NATO Hirtenberger BALL ] were from an UNMODIFIED M14, dropped into a US GI stock, with a Gritty "three stage" trigger, and IRON sights.
After chopping the barrel to 18 3/4", doing most of my usual M14 tightening and tweaks, putting on a scope mount and a 4X scope, and refitting a new POLY bolt to PERFECT head space of .308 GO plus .0015", and reshooting for group with the same ammo, the group sizes stayed almost exactly the same. Which tells me that if I want any better groups, I REALLY need to do a better trigger job.
Quite often, I've found that, no matter how accurate an M14 might be in theory, it is the SH!tty /Gritty / Heavy trigger job that is the limiting factor in an M14 rifle's real world EXTRACTABLE accuracy.
I am waiting on some NEW Garand triggers and hammers from Italy, and after I do a decent trigger job, I'll report back if there is any change.
PPS: shooting my 2 1/2 lb JARD trigger equipped AR 10 beside my M14 REALLY reinforces the fact that a decent trigger is IMPORTANT to accuracy.
LAZ 1
I've seen several M14s that really liked the cheap blue box Fed power shock 150 gr ammo.
ON AVERAGE, over several recent M14s tested, the Fed blue Box 150 gr power shock was the winner over several types of 7.62 BALL ammo and other brands of cheap .308 SP..
Unfortunately for me, my personal M14 does NOT like the fed blue box stuff.
M14s are very sensitive to ammo variations, and they can have dramatic individual likes and dislikes.
Which is why i keep saying over and over again,
YPMMV!!!
PS: just to keep things in perspective when it comes to "accurising" an M14,
the groups I posted above [ 2 1/2" group with 4/5 into 1 1/8" ] with Federal 168 HPBT Match & 2 1/8" group, with 7.62 NATO Hirtenberger BALL ] were from an UNMODIFIED M14, dropped into a US GI stock, with a Gritty "three stage" trigger, and IRON sights.
After chopping the barrel to 18 3/4", doing most of my usual M14 tightening and tweaks, putting on a scope mount and a 4X scope, and refitting a new POLY bolt to PERFECT head space of .308 GO plus .0015", and reshooting for group with the same ammo, the group sizes stayed almost exactly the same. Which tells me that if I want any better groups, I REALLY need to do a better trigger job.
Quite often, I've found that, no matter how accurate an M14 might be in theory, it is the SH!tty /Gritty / Heavy trigger job that is the limiting factor in an M14 rifle's real world EXTRACTABLE accuracy.
I am waiting on some NEW Garand triggers and hammers from Italy, and after I do a decent trigger job, I'll report back if there is any change.
PPS: shooting my 2 1/2 lb JARD trigger equipped AR 10 beside my M14 REALLY reinforces the fact that a decent trigger is IMPORTANT to accuracy.
LAZ 1
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To me, once you get into the 1.5" at 100 yards zone of accuracy, you have a pretty useful semi auto firearm. It would be nice to hit a loonie at 100 yards, but you can certainly kill a deer at 200 yards with a 3-4" group at that distance.
Sounds like reloading is the real deal for acheiving accuracy in m14's.
Sounds like reloading is the real deal for acheiving accuracy in m14's.
Yeah well 1,5" is better than what I need. Would be nice though.
Lazerus2000, I have been looking for a USGI stock but it's not going very well. BTW would you recommend a springfield walnut stock or a USGI walnut? I'd like to retain the civvie/fudd look of a wooden stock.
About the other two mods on my list...
Shimming:Marstars shims are out of stock. I think I'm going to snatch a pair of "O"-shims at the workshop at school. I can't see why it wouldn't work. If it really has to be an 8-shim then maybe I could drill a plate to the right specs and then grind it to the right thickness?
New Parts: I can buy stuff for a maximum of 100USD from brownells, their export license can't handle larger orders. I'm thinking I can buy a springfield operating spring and a sadlak spring guide and get some extra accuracy out of that. Does the experienced agree? Should I get a sadlak piston while I'm at it or is that lipstick on a pig at this level?
thanks.
Lazerus2000, I have been looking for a USGI stock but it's not going very well. BTW would you recommend a springfield walnut stock or a USGI walnut? I'd like to retain the civvie/fudd look of a wooden stock.
About the other two mods on my list...
Shimming:Marstars shims are out of stock. I think I'm going to snatch a pair of "O"-shims at the workshop at school. I can't see why it wouldn't work. If it really has to be an 8-shim then maybe I could drill a plate to the right specs and then grind it to the right thickness?
New Parts: I can buy stuff for a maximum of 100USD from brownells, their export license can't handle larger orders. I'm thinking I can buy a springfield operating spring and a sadlak spring guide and get some extra accuracy out of that. Does the experienced agree? Should I get a sadlak piston while I'm at it or is that lipstick on a pig at this level?
thanks.
My understanding is that piston are like ammo, each rifle (or gas cylinder) have his particular likes and dislikes. You have to try it but don't expect a huge difference.
Brownells refused shipping me the Sadlak spring guide a few times. I finally ordered a Badger. After receiving the Badger, they mysteriously accepted to ship the Sadlak one. Very similar guide, Badger probably don't worth the extra price but is a good option if they refuse to send the Sadlak part.
Brownells refused shipping me the Sadlak spring guide a few times. I finally ordered a Badger. After receiving the Badger, they mysteriously accepted to ship the Sadlak one. Very similar guide, Badger probably don't worth the extra price but is a good option if they refuse to send the Sadlak part.
on average,
the chrome plated Chinese gas cylinders and pistons are a few thou larger than the SS US GI cylinders and pistons.
YPMMV
Which means,
your expensive Sadlak or Badger piston might actually be smaller,
and a poorer fit in your Chinese gas assembly,
than your cheap Chinese piston.
I suggest you spend your $$$ on something else.
However,
some of the Chinese gas assembly housings I've been seeing lately are quite a bit off in terms of the bore being true with the exterior of the casting. I've even seen one brand new POLY that would not function reliably until we swapped out the gas cylinder.
SO,
a US GI or aftermarket gas cylinder might be a good investment,
and then a Sadlak or badger piston might make some sense.
LAZ 1
the chrome plated Chinese gas cylinders and pistons are a few thou larger than the SS US GI cylinders and pistons.
YPMMV
Which means,
your expensive Sadlak or Badger piston might actually be smaller,
and a poorer fit in your Chinese gas assembly,
than your cheap Chinese piston.
I suggest you spend your $$$ on something else.
However,
some of the Chinese gas assembly housings I've been seeing lately are quite a bit off in terms of the bore being true with the exterior of the casting. I've even seen one brand new POLY that would not function reliably until we swapped out the gas cylinder.
SO,
a US GI or aftermarket gas cylinder might be a good investment,
and then a Sadlak or badger piston might make some sense.
LAZ 1
when i accurize these rifles I generally do not add a long list of replacement parts.
the NM oprod spring guide rod serves a couple of purposes.
one it keeps the spring staight on compression and in theory, gives the oprod a more stable path, leading to repeatable function which leads to accuracy
the other reason is due to it's tightening up the travel of the oprod, the guide rod assists in minimizing wear of parts due to sloppy oprod travel and twisty spring compression.
it doesn't matter if you have a tartan, rauch or marstar NM guide rod in your rifle they all do the same thing and function reliably with your existing chinese spring, are availlable in Canada as well.
these above guide rods are no less effective than Sadlak, springfield or Badger, which ALL require upgrading to a U.S. spec spring.....
unless your chinese spring has for some reason ceased to work for you..... there is no need to go to the U.S. for parts.
as for pistons..... an aftermarket U.S. made piston is not a cureall for an innacurate rifle and should be very low on the list of upgrades.
if you are building a rifle, sure, go with all the premium U.S. parts but for a reliable and accurate m14
start with a NM guide rod
NM condition the oprod guide to negate any rotational movement
roll peen the barrel's gas assembly flange for correct gas port alignment/gas lock index , thus negating the need for shims.....
Unitize the gas assembly for a permanent fix to barrel band vibration
and get yerself a good trigger job by someone who actually knows what they are doing.
or get info from "so called experts" who handle a few rifles a year and call themselves experts. I have a growing list of dozens and dozens of rifles tuned in the past year that thier owners were amazed at how thier rifles performed after sending them in for accurizing.
if you have questions, P.M. me, I'll never steer you wrong and advice is free
the NM oprod spring guide rod serves a couple of purposes.
one it keeps the spring staight on compression and in theory, gives the oprod a more stable path, leading to repeatable function which leads to accuracy
the other reason is due to it's tightening up the travel of the oprod, the guide rod assists in minimizing wear of parts due to sloppy oprod travel and twisty spring compression.
it doesn't matter if you have a tartan, rauch or marstar NM guide rod in your rifle they all do the same thing and function reliably with your existing chinese spring, are availlable in Canada as well.
these above guide rods are no less effective than Sadlak, springfield or Badger, which ALL require upgrading to a U.S. spec spring.....
unless your chinese spring has for some reason ceased to work for you..... there is no need to go to the U.S. for parts.
as for pistons..... an aftermarket U.S. made piston is not a cureall for an innacurate rifle and should be very low on the list of upgrades.
if you are building a rifle, sure, go with all the premium U.S. parts but for a reliable and accurate m14
start with a NM guide rod
NM condition the oprod guide to negate any rotational movement
roll peen the barrel's gas assembly flange for correct gas port alignment/gas lock index , thus negating the need for shims.....
Unitize the gas assembly for a permanent fix to barrel band vibration
and get yerself a good trigger job by someone who actually knows what they are doing.
or get info from "so called experts" who handle a few rifles a year and call themselves experts. I have a growing list of dozens and dozens of rifles tuned in the past year that thier owners were amazed at how thier rifles performed after sending them in for accurizing.
if you have questions, P.M. me, I'll never steer you wrong and advice is free
OK FINE!
We just had another range session with another near new, basically out of the box Chinese M14. With this particular M14, the owner initially complained that it was “Inaccurate, and had a wandering zero”.
As I’ve posted before, over and Over and OVER,
THE M14 TYPE RIFLES ARE INCREDIBLLY SENSITIVE TO AMMUNITION VARIATIONS. Many times, I’ve seen the same M14 rifle, on the same day, shoot excellent groups with one brand of commercial ammo, and horrible groups with another.
SO,
before you decide that your M14 is “inaccurate”,
OR,
Before you decide that you need to spend a lot of $$$ accurising your M14
Aka: putting lipstick on your pig,
FIRST,
determine exactly what diet your particular pig likes best.
In this particular case, we “minimized the variables” and “base lined the testing” by putting that "?BAD? Inaccurate?” M14 into a US GI fiberglass stock with good clean lug bearing surfaces, with a Harris type bipod up front, one of our prototype K.I.S.S. M14 scope mounts, mounted with my personal well proven Bushnell 3200 5-15 scope.
After a few sighting rounds at 25 yds, to get us on paper @ 100, we shot for group with a cold barrel, and a few different brands of factory ammo. The first five shot group, with the EL-CHEAPO, Can Tire/Walmart bargain bin, Fed Blue Box 150 Gr SP ammo, was a disgustingly inaccurate 1.35” …. With four out of five into about ¾”.
YEP,
We proved that that particular rifle DID have a “wandering zero” …
We saw that it threw one of those five shots almost ½” away at 100 yds.
Dam THOSE @$#$%%^%^% 8TH GRADE Chinese shop students ….
What kind of quality control is that on a $ 450 military type battle rifle any how??
Then we got that sucker HOT!!!!
We loaded up a big bunch of mags [ 5 rds at a time ] and we shot as fast as we could aim, pull the trigger, and change mags. SMOKE was poring out of the hand guard.
About 100 rds later, when we let the sucker cool down, we were still getting about the same accuracy. Those horrible SUB-2” groups @ 100 yds just would NOT go away.
So, we found out, as I mentioned before, that this particular M14 liked the EL-Cheapo Fed Blue Box 150 Gr SP ammo …. Just like many other of the M14 type rifles I’ve tried it in. The bad news is that my personal M14 won’t shoot the FED BB any better than 3 to 4”… my pet pig doesn’t like that particular shade of cheap lipstick. My pet pig is high maintenance …She DEMANDS the expensive FED GM Match 168 gr lipstick if she is going to perform.
SO,
Just to keep things in perspective,
We shot side by side with a Sorenson tuned, custom bedded, FLUTED HBAR Rem 700, with a 2 lb trigger, a bipod, and a ZEISS Conquest Tactical scope set at 20 X. With the EL Cheapo FED BB ammo, the EXPENSIVE Rem 700 boom stick shot BIGGER groups than the $ 450 el-cheapo M14. It wasn’t until we fed the Rem 700 some 168 Gr HP BT match ammo, that we were able to get groups about the same size as the CHEAP M14, using the CHEAP ammo.
There you have it.
You can spend your money on your M14 accurising, accessorizing, and putting lipstick on your pig,
but it might still be ugly,
OR,
You can spend your money on lots of different types of ammunition,
Finding out what diet your pig likes best.
And maybe you’ll get lucky,
and find out, like this M14 owner did,
that with the right ammo,
His pig was a Princess in disguise.
I have personally BTDT with the M14s and accurising, DOZENS of times.
I used to do this professionally, for paying customers.
These days, before I'd spend any $$$ on M14 parts or M14 "accurising",
beyond the simple do it yourself tricks and basic reliability tune up and tightening
[which I've documented thoroughly in the stickies in the BR section ]
I would simply buy LOTS OF DIFFERENT AMMO,
to find out what works best in my personal M14,
and then I'd shoot it and shoot it ...
at least until I was as accurate as the rifle itself.
OR,
if I REALY wanted accuracy,
I'd buy myself a decent bolt action [ Tikka T3 perhaps ]
OR
If I really wanted an ACCURATE GAS gun,
I'd buy an AR 10 [ the rem R25s are pretty decent AR 10 clones]
So there you have it ...
advice from the guy who has been building M14s for DECADES.
Remember though,
free advice you get off the internet is often worth less than you paid for it,
AND,
YPMMV
LAZ 1
[;{)
[;{)
We just had another range session with another near new, basically out of the box Chinese M14. With this particular M14, the owner initially complained that it was “Inaccurate, and had a wandering zero”.
As I’ve posted before, over and Over and OVER,
THE M14 TYPE RIFLES ARE INCREDIBLLY SENSITIVE TO AMMUNITION VARIATIONS. Many times, I’ve seen the same M14 rifle, on the same day, shoot excellent groups with one brand of commercial ammo, and horrible groups with another.
SO,
before you decide that your M14 is “inaccurate”,
OR,
Before you decide that you need to spend a lot of $$$ accurising your M14
Aka: putting lipstick on your pig,
FIRST,
determine exactly what diet your particular pig likes best.
In this particular case, we “minimized the variables” and “base lined the testing” by putting that "?BAD? Inaccurate?” M14 into a US GI fiberglass stock with good clean lug bearing surfaces, with a Harris type bipod up front, one of our prototype K.I.S.S. M14 scope mounts, mounted with my personal well proven Bushnell 3200 5-15 scope.
After a few sighting rounds at 25 yds, to get us on paper @ 100, we shot for group with a cold barrel, and a few different brands of factory ammo. The first five shot group, with the EL-CHEAPO, Can Tire/Walmart bargain bin, Fed Blue Box 150 Gr SP ammo, was a disgustingly inaccurate 1.35” …. With four out of five into about ¾”.
YEP,
We proved that that particular rifle DID have a “wandering zero” …
We saw that it threw one of those five shots almost ½” away at 100 yds.
Dam THOSE @$#$%%^%^% 8TH GRADE Chinese shop students ….
What kind of quality control is that on a $ 450 military type battle rifle any how??
Then we got that sucker HOT!!!!
We loaded up a big bunch of mags [ 5 rds at a time ] and we shot as fast as we could aim, pull the trigger, and change mags. SMOKE was poring out of the hand guard.
About 100 rds later, when we let the sucker cool down, we were still getting about the same accuracy. Those horrible SUB-2” groups @ 100 yds just would NOT go away.
So, we found out, as I mentioned before, that this particular M14 liked the EL-Cheapo Fed Blue Box 150 Gr SP ammo …. Just like many other of the M14 type rifles I’ve tried it in. The bad news is that my personal M14 won’t shoot the FED BB any better than 3 to 4”… my pet pig doesn’t like that particular shade of cheap lipstick. My pet pig is high maintenance …She DEMANDS the expensive FED GM Match 168 gr lipstick if she is going to perform.
SO,
Just to keep things in perspective,
We shot side by side with a Sorenson tuned, custom bedded, FLUTED HBAR Rem 700, with a 2 lb trigger, a bipod, and a ZEISS Conquest Tactical scope set at 20 X. With the EL Cheapo FED BB ammo, the EXPENSIVE Rem 700 boom stick shot BIGGER groups than the $ 450 el-cheapo M14. It wasn’t until we fed the Rem 700 some 168 Gr HP BT match ammo, that we were able to get groups about the same size as the CHEAP M14, using the CHEAP ammo.
There you have it.
You can spend your money on your M14 accurising, accessorizing, and putting lipstick on your pig,
but it might still be ugly,
OR,
You can spend your money on lots of different types of ammunition,
Finding out what diet your pig likes best.
And maybe you’ll get lucky,
and find out, like this M14 owner did,
that with the right ammo,
His pig was a Princess in disguise.
I have personally BTDT with the M14s and accurising, DOZENS of times.
I used to do this professionally, for paying customers.
These days, before I'd spend any $$$ on M14 parts or M14 "accurising",
beyond the simple do it yourself tricks and basic reliability tune up and tightening
[which I've documented thoroughly in the stickies in the BR section ]
I would simply buy LOTS OF DIFFERENT AMMO,
to find out what works best in my personal M14,
and then I'd shoot it and shoot it ...
at least until I was as accurate as the rifle itself.
OR,
if I REALY wanted accuracy,
I'd buy myself a decent bolt action [ Tikka T3 perhaps ]
OR
If I really wanted an ACCURATE GAS gun,
I'd buy an AR 10 [ the rem R25s are pretty decent AR 10 clones]
So there you have it ...
advice from the guy who has been building M14s for DECADES.
Remember though,
free advice you get off the internet is often worth less than you paid for it,
AND,
YPMMV
LAZ 1
[;{)
[;{)
I would like to purchase a new scope mount and or/ full length rail from a small Canadian manufacturer that may or may not both have posted in this thread.
I wonder if any person and or persons may know when said products are to be purchasable by the sheeple?
I wonder if any person and or persons may know when said products are to be purchasable by the sheeple?
I was hitting a 8" x 8" steel plate painted orange at 300 m five for five shots with iron sites.
I don't really shoot paper at long range with this rifle. It is a 2007 Norc with a USGI Walnut stock and the Marstar op rod spring guide rod.
I don't really shoot paper at long range with this rifle. It is a 2007 Norc with a USGI Walnut stock and the Marstar op rod spring guide rod.
You mean THIS rifle?
Hmm
Well here's the first set on a cold barrel:
or maybe this?
Yeah that's 10 (at 50 yards, but RAPID FIRE, say 20 seconds including magchange or so?)
I'm just writing up a review on the mount, as I had the opportunity to beta test it, more info in the next few days!
-Jeff
I had one Norinco M14 that didn't fit the textbook criteria for any of the properties that should make it accurate, it had a loose gas system and no barrel tang pressure from the stock. But, it shot pretty well. ????? Go figure. As said above, shoot your gun first, try different ammo before investing in hot rod parts.
