Powder boxes.

kodiakattack

kodiakattack

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Going to start my new powder storage box today, just wondering if you would share some picks of what you store your powder in . I will just be using 3/4 ply with non- ferris metal fasteners.

Thanks ...
 
4-5 years ago I looked up the regs and there was no mention of wooden boxes and non-ferrous fasteners. It was hotly debated here on CGN with many quoting a terribly out-of-date CSSA website article saying wooden boxes are required. The regs when I checked said it had to be a locked container, clearly marked "explosives", kept clean, having a blow-out panel in case of fire, and used exclusively for the storage of powder. No mention of construction material.

Somewhere around 1 year ago the regs were changed and storage limits were increased. There was no mention of the wooden box requirements and people started to freak out about it, again quoting a significantly out-of-date article from the CSSA website. Many still strongly believed a wooden box was required even though there was no mention in the legal regulations, and there hadn't been for at least 3-4 years at that point.

As far as I've read from what people quote here on CGN, I've never seen any legal reference to a wooden box requirement aside from the CSSA website article which hadn't been updated in over a decade when I last checked. Maybe it does exist somewhere I've missed and for some reason no one on CGN has been able to post a link to it and I've never found it, I don't know.

Everyone I know uses metal cabinets or large plastic tool boxes (both lockable) to store powder.
 
LUTNIT - The "wood box" thing still exists in Saskatchewan Mine Regulations for using explosives in a mine. However, your comment about powder being required to be stored in a locked container - to clarify - no need to lock up loaded ammunition when stored separately from firearms, but powder must be locked up when stored? Also, in mine blasting had basically the same requirement for detonators. AFAYK, are primers required to be locked up when stored? Must they be stored seperately from powder?
 
https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/explosives/acquisition-storage-sale/9829

Smokeless Powder

Smokeless Powder is a single-based or double-based colloidal nitrocellulose mixture. These nitrocellulose mixtures are extremely flammable and can deflagrate easily under normal conditions. Under specific conditions, smokeless powder can detonate. (Type P.2)
Acquisition

The acquisition, storage and sale of propellants and ammunition require a dwelling, a storage unit or an explosives licence depending on the quantity and type of explosives being handled. Any person handling explosives must be at least 18 years of age or older unless otherwise exempted by the Explosives Act and Regulations.
Storage for Use

Dwelling

A person may acquire and store up to 5 kilogram gross mass of smokeless powder for use in an attached dwelling if the containers are greater than 1 kilogram gross mass.
A person may acquire and store up to 20 kilograms gross mass of smokeless powder for use in an attached dwelling if the containers are less than or equal to 1 kilogram gross mass.
A person may acquire and store up to 25 kilograms gross mass of smokeless powder for use in a detached dwelling or a storage unit attached to a detached dwelling. This value is inclusive of all the propellant powders at the dwelling.
When propellant powders, percussion caps or black power cartouches are stored in a dwelling:


  1. they must be stored away from flammable substances and sources of ignition. People not authorized by the user must not be given unlimited access to the propellant powder, percussion caps or black powder cartouches.
Storage Unit

A person may acquire and store up to 75 kilograms gross mass of smokeless powder for use in a storage unit.
When propellant powders, percussion caps or black powder cartouches are stored in a storage unit:

  1. the storage unit must be located in a dry place, away from flammable substances and sources of ignition;
  2. the storage unit must be constructed and maintained to prevent unauthorized access and to protect the contents from weather;
  3. if the storage unit is a container, it must not impede exit in case of fire;
  4. if the storage unit is not a container, all exits must be kept unobstructed;
  5. any shelving in the storage unit must be made from a non- sparking material (for example, wood or painted metal);
  6. nothing other than small arms cartridges may be stored with the propellant powder, percussion caps or black powder cartouches;
  7. propellant powder, percussion caps, small arms cartridges and black powder cartouches must be stored separately from one another (for example, on different shelves or separated by a wooden barrier);
  8. the storage unit must be attended when it is unlocked;
  9. the storage unit must be kept clean, dry, organized and free of grit;
  10. any spill, leakage or other contamination in the storage unit must be cleaned up immediately;
  11. precautions that minimize the likelihood of fire in or near the storage unit must be taken; and
  12. a sign that displays the words “Danger — Fire Hazard/Risque d’incendie” in letters at least 10 cm high and that prohibits smoking using letters, or a symbol, at least 10 cm high must be posted on the storage unit in a clearly visible location.
Explosives Licence

A person may acquire and store greater than 75 kg gross mass of smokeless powder for use in a magazine if they hold an explosives licence.
Storage for Sale

Dwelling

A person may acquire and store up to 5 kilogram gross mass of smokeless powder for sale in an attached dwelling if the containers are greater than 1 kilogram gross mass.
A person may acquire and store up to 20 kilograms gross mass of smokeless powder for sale in an attached dwelling if the containers are less than or equal to 1 kilogram gross mass.
A person may acquire and store up to 25 kilograms gross mass of smokeless powder for sale in a detached dwelling or a storage unit attached to a detached dwelling. This value is inclusive of all the propellant powders at the dwelling.
When propellant powders, percussion caps or black power cartouches are stored in a dwelling:

  1. they must be stored away from flammable substances and sources of ignition. People not authorized by the user must not be given unlimited access to the propellant powder, percussion caps or black powder cartouches.
Display for Sale

Propellant Powders and Percussion Caps displayed for sale must meet the following:

  1. No more than 12 kg of propellant powder, of which no more than 500 g may be black powder, may be displayed for sale.
  2. Propellant powder that is displayed for sale must be in a container that holds no more than 500 g.
  3. No more than 10 000 percussion caps may be displayed for sale.
  4. Percussion caps that are displayed for sale must be in their original packaging.
  5. Propellant powder and percussion caps that are displayed for sale must be kept behind a counter or locked up (for example, in a cabinet).
  6. Only people authorized by the retailer may have access to the area behind a sales counter.
Storage Unit

A person may acquire and store up to 75 kilograms gross mass of smokeless powder for sale in a storage unit.
When propellant powders, percussion caps or black powder cartouches are stored in a storage unit:

  1. the storage unit must be located in a dry place, away from flammable substances and sources of ignition;
  2. the storage unit must be constructed and maintained to prevent unauthorized access and to protect the contents from weather;
  3. if the storage unit is a container, it must not impede exit in case of fire;
  4. if the storage unit is not a container, all exits must be kept unobstructed;
  5. any shelving in the storage unit must be made from a non- sparking material (for example, wood or painted metal);
  6. nothing other than small arms cartridges may be stored with the propellant powder, percussion caps or black powder cartouches;
  7. propellant powder, percussion caps, small arms cartridges and black powder cartouches must be stored separately from one another (for example, on different shelves or separated by a wooden barrier);
  8. the storage unit must be attended when it is unlocked;
  9. the storage unit must be kept clean, dry, organized and free of grit;
  10. any spill, leakage or other contamination in the storage unit must be cleaned up immediately;
  11. precautions that minimize the likelihood of fire in or near the storage unit must be taken; and
  12. a sign that displays the words “Danger — Fire Hazard/Risque d’incendie” in letters at least 10 cm high and that prohibits smoking using letters, or a symbol, at least 10 cm high must be posted on the storage unit in a clearly visible location.
Explosives Licence

A person may acquire and store greater than 75 kg gross mass of smokeless powder for sale in a magazine if they hold an explosives licence.




Date Modified:2014-04-22
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I'm just going to go ahead and repost this every time this question is opened. Again.

I AM NOT A LAWYER AND THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE. But the new regulations are pretty loose, and pretty easy to interpret. This is my interpretation of them.

What's a storage unit?
“storage unit” means a building, structure, place or container in which explosives are stored and that is not licensed. However, it does not include a dwelling or any structure, place or container in a dwelling.
Click to expand...


It's not your house or apartment. It's not a dwelling, container or place in your house or apartment. Did you build a nice box to put your stuff in, and keep it in your reloading room or a closet or the garage or whatever? Good for you. But it's not a storage unit.

EDIT: I just want to restate this, because I found it super confusing when I first read the act. The definition of a storage unit essentially means that, if it's something you have inside your dwelling, it's not a storage unit.


What's a licensed user?
Storage — licensed user


  • 279. (1) A user who holds a licence must store their small arms cartridges in the magazine specified in their licence.
Click to expand...

Does your PAL/RPAL specify that you need to keep your ammo in a magazine? No? Then that should be a clue as to what 'license' is for the purposes of the act. It's not your PAL. So, unless you have a license to deal with explosives, you are an unlicensed user.

How can I store my ammo? I like ammo.
Storage — unlicensed user

(2) A user who does not hold a licence must store their small arms cartridges, including any small arms cartridges manufactured by the user under Division 2, in a dwelling or a storage unit and ensure that the requirements of sections 280 and 281 are met.
Click to expand...

We've already discussed what a storage unit is. Are you using a storage unit? Almost certainly not, unless you have a bunker out back. So you are probably storing it in your dwelling. Let's look at the requirements for storing ammo in a dwelling:
Maximum quantity

280. No more than 225 kg of small arms cartridges may be stored at any one time.

  • 281. (1) When small arms cartridges are stored in a dwelling, they must be stored away from flammable substances and sources of ignition. People not authorized by the user must not be given unlimited access to the cartridges.
Click to expand...

OK, so we can store up to about 500 lb of ammo. This doesn't include the brass, projectiles or packaging-- just the explody stuff like powder and primers, so that's a LOT.

You need to store it away from fire. DUH.

You must not give unauthorized people access to the cartridges. What does this mean? IANAL but it sounds to me like you have to have some reasonable measure of security for your ammo. In a locked box or a locked room, and not on the kitchen table, would be my guess. But like I said, I'm not a lawyer and this isn't legal advice. I keep mine locked up the same way I keep my other incredibly rare and expensive and difficult to find things locked up. ;)

And that is literally all the regs for ammo storage in the act, if you're not storing them in a storage unit. TA-DA!


Where can I store powder and primers? There's some room in the fridge.

Once again, you are almost certainly an unlicensed user. So:
Unlicensed user

298. A user who does not hold a licence must store their propellant powder, percussion caps and black powder cartouches in a dwelling or a storage unit and ensure that the requirements of sections 299 to 304 are met.
Click to expand...

So same deal. You can store powder and primers in a storage unit or a dwelling. Are you storing them a in a storage unit? No? You have them in your reloading room or in a closet or whatever? OK then, all you need to worry about is sections 299 - 304. Let's look at those.

299. (1) Percussion caps must be stored in their original packaging.
(2) Smokeless powder must be stored in its original container or in small arms cartridges
(3) Black powder must be stored in its original container, in small arms cartridges or in black powder cartouches.
Click to expand...

OK, so keep your powder in the jars or jugs it came with and don't be a damned fool and dump all your primers in a big jar.

How much powder and how many primers can I have? A lot? A little? I want a lot.

This is covered by sections 300 - 301. There's a lot of text, so I'll just summarize:

1) I'm about to lay out some max quantities. Remember that the max you can have on hand includes any powder you have sitting in loaded cartridges

2) Are you in a detached dwelling? I.e.: something other than a place where a bunch of different families are living? Like, you live in a regular house? Then you can have 25 kg, of which no more than 10 kg is black powder

3) Oh you're NOT in a detached dwelling? You're a poor urban apartment dweller? Sucks to be you . Then you can have 20 kg of powder in total, UNLESS you have ANY OF IT in a container that holds more than 1 kg. Then you can only have 5 kg in total.
There's an interesting passage earlier:

Note: These Regulations do not limit the number of percussion caps that may be stored in their original packaging in a dwelling or a storage unit.
Click to expand...

Wait! So I can have one billion primers? According to the act, you can have ONE BILLION primers if you want, as long as they're in their original packaging. Use them as furniture, I don't care.

What about all the crazy storage requirements? Mahogany boxes with letters of flame a thousand feet high or whatever?

No. These are the requirements laid out in the act for storage in a dwelling:

Storage requirements — dwelling


  • 304. (1) When propellant powder, percussion caps or black power cartouches are stored in a dwelling, they must be stored away from flammable substances and sources of ignition. People not authorized by the user must not be given unlimited access to the propellant powder, percussion caps or black powder cartouches.
Click to expand...

That's IT. The stuff below is for when you store stuff in a storage unit which, by definition, is not something you can have inside a dwelling.

Who can make ammo? Can grandma reload? What about my dog?

This stuff is laid out in section 305 and is super long, so I'll just summarize here:

1) You must be 18, or you must be supervised by someone who is 18
2) The place you're doing the reloading must have a means of escape to let everyone leave quickly. A door and some stairs is probably a pretty good means.
3) Be careful when handling explody stuff to try to make sure it doesn't burn or explode! There's nothing specific here, but I'd say at a minimum put out that damned cigar.
4) Keep the labels on your powder and primer containers. We've already covered the fact that you need to keep them in the original packaging so this one should be a no brainer
5) You can't have more than 2 kg of smokeless powder within 1 m of your loading area. This is just reloading common sense. Put your powder away when you're not working with it.
6) You can't have more than 500 g of black powder within 1 m of your reloading area.
7) No incendiaries or 'military components or devices'. I have no idea what that last bit is but this won't apply to 99.9% of reloaders.
8) No more than 150 primers/percussion caps in the loading mechanism at any time. This is also just reloading common sense, IMO. Doesn't mean you can't have spare filled primer tubes hanging out and ready to go.
 
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Seems to be one contradiction. Max 225kg of explody (I rather like that word) things total possession. Then we have the second part about powder storage and you comment that this includes powder stored in cartridges. These seem to contradict. I'd be interested to know how the two statements work together. Thank you, by the way, for the clearest interpretation I've heard or seen yet. Fantastic job.
 
jzz30tt said:
Seems to be one contradiction. Max 225kg of explody (I rather like that word) things total possession. Then we have the second part about powder storage and you comment that this includes powder stored in cartridges. These seem to contradict. I'd be interested to know how the two statements work together. Thank you, by the way, for the clearest interpretation I've heard or seen yet. Fantastic job.
Click to expand...

Hmm.. you're right. I'll have to go over that again and maybe revise it for the next time this topic comes up. :)

I *think* it means that you can have 225 kg of small arms cartridges in total, but the powder in those cartridges counts against the limits of your overall powder storage limit, in which case what I posted is slightly incorrect. I'll double check it tomorrow and revise if necessary.
 
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I used 3/4" plywood for the front and back surfaces, stair tread for the depth (top, bottom and sides) brass hinges, lock flap and screws. Steel lock. Make sure you paint the proper yellow warning label on the door.
 
bnichols said:
I used 3/4" plywood for the front and back surfaces, stair tread for the depth (top, bottom and sides) brass hinges, lock flap and screws. Steel lock. Make sure you paint the proper yellow warning label on the door.
Click to expand...

I did something similar but none of this is actually required, AFAIK. in the end, I'm happy I have this box because my powder will be protected against incidental sparks and fires. But it's not required.

OP: see my original post here for a list of materials I used and what my box wound up looking like (I spray painted it afterward).

EDIT: If you read that post, I'm going on about the storage 'regulations' that I found on the CSSA site. As far as I know, none of that is actually law. But IMO it's pretty good advice to lock your powder away from curious or mischievous kids, isolate it from incidental fires and small sparks, and put it in a container that can easily be picked up and moved in the case of an actual fire.
 
I used to keep mine in locked ammo boxes, but once I started getting more (for pistol loads) I ended up putting them in this 'cabinet' that I mounted on my garage wall. I moved my dies and other stuff out onto another shelf. I got it from Princess Auto a year or two ago and replaced the hasp so I could lock it.
mZlG6SLl.jpg
 
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